286 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ac58c7e3865b5367eb1e86d7aeadae09.mp4 89316ad8ce45e0c69bb2c738b77cbd2d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/619917ac7e9a026cc72aca3c108fbaff.pdf 9b37a71a35e371dfd7e324f01b070379 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Peter Godino World War II 1 hour 1 minute 42 seconds (00:00:15) Early Life -Born in Italy on November 16, 1921 -Came to the United States in 1930 -Father had lived in the U.S. since 1905 -Wanted his wife and children to be with him -Settled in a town in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania -Only spoke Italian when he first got to the United States -Was able to jump ahead three grades -Learned English in only two years -Didn't face any ridicule for being an Italian -Grew up in a neighborhood made up of the descendants of Hessians -Near Valley Forge -Raised a garden during the Great Depression -Had one hog a year they could butcher for food -Helped a local farmer with his harvests -Canned food to eat later -Got along pretty well during the Great Depression -Shoveled snow during the winters and brought the money home to help his family (00:02:25) Enlisting in the Army -Made a decision at a young age to join the military at a young age -A man from his hometown had joined the Army -Came back and talked about his experiences -Impressed Peter and motivated him to enlist when he was old enough -Enlisted in the Army when he was eighteen years old -Went to the courthouse in Philadelphia and enlisted -There was a need for men in the Army Air Corps so he was assigned to that -Enlisted in 1939 (00:03:39) Basic Training -Sent to Bolling Field, Washington D.C. for basic training -Sent there by train -Travelled with a group of seven or eight other recruits -Farthest he'd ever been from home -Had brick barracks and they were starting to build wooden barracks -Not very crowded at the time -Basic training began immediately -Did drills and learned about military etiquette -Who to salute, who not to salute -Food was the best that he had ever seen -First time that he had ever seen pork chops �-Congress would review the base for quality -After two (or three) months he was done with basic training (00:06:11) Duties at Bolling Field Pt. 1 -With his training complete one of his first jobs was to stoke the fires for water heaters -Made sure that the coal fires didn't go out so there was hot water for showers -Worked for twenty four hours on and forty eight hours off -Moved to operations duty -More like a regular civilian job -Pilots would file a flight plan and he would call it in -Worked with six to twelve other men -Worked with older aircraft -Once saw a P-39 come in -Most were being sent to Russia though -Had a P-40 come in once in a while -Always had an interest in flying (00:08:59) Awareness of the War -He was aware of what was happening in Europe and Asia -Read about the war in Europe and Japan's conquest in Asia -Knew that it was inevitable that the U.S. would get involved -Knew that material was being given to England -Stood as part of the Honor Guard when Prime Minister Churchill visited Washington D.C. -He visited in January 1941 -Had to stand there for four hours -Saw President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill together -Knew that England was desperate and needed help -Admired Churchill, but loved Roosevelt -Believes that President Roosevelt saved the U.S. from collapse and conquest (00:12:08) Duties at Bolling Field Pt. 2 -Stayed in operations for a while -Prior to operations he had worked with parachutes -Checking out parachutes to wealthy officers so they could get their reserve time (00:12:58) Pearl Harbor -He was working in operations when he heard the news flash about Pearl Harbor -News came on the radio at 10 or 11 in the morning on December 7, 1941 -Everything was shut down -Restrictions were put in place -Couldn't wear civilian clothes around the base any more -Came as a shock -Knew where Pearl Harbor was because he knew men that had been stationed at Hickam Field -Initially had believed that the war would come from Germany -After the oil embargo was placed on Japan it became apparent Japan would attack (00:14:53) Glider Program �-In 1942 the glider program began in earnest -Took an aptitude test for that and was accepted into the program -Sent to a training field in Wisconsin for primary training -Flew a solo flight on a powered aircraft after seventy to eighty hours of powered flight -Flew a solo flight on a glider after forty hours of glider flight -Flew in Piper Cubs -Solo flew for six hours -Goal of the gliders was to carry troops into combat without needing an airfield (00:16:29) Gunnery Training and Joining a Bomber Crew -Too many men were trained to be glider pilots so half of the class was sent to be reclassified -He was selected for gunnery training -Sent to Gunnery School in Las Vegas, Nevada -From there he was sent to Wendover Field, Utah where crews were being formed -When he got there he wasn't yet part of a unit -Began training with his crew, as a crew -The 461st Bombardment Group had lost a crew, so his crew was selected as a replacement -After being assigned to the 461st they were sent to Fresno, California -Most likely Hammer Field -Started to hear rumors that they would be sent to the European Theatre -Fresno was a large base -Went on training flights -Shot at targets in the Pacific Ocean -Had more bombers than they had crews -Had to wait for a bomber to be available for training missions -Flew simulated bombing missions and navigation missions -Spent a lot of time waiting for training missions -Pilot, co-pilot, navigator, and bombardier were the ones that needed training -Crew's unit was getting stronger -Pilot had to have a minimum amount of hours in flight before being deployed -Learning how to fly in formation -Navigator had to learn how to land in bad conditions -One time they came back from a training mission and had to land at a fogged in air field -Socialized with the other crews and got to know the other airmen (00:22:29) Deployment -Received orders to go overseas -His crew and their ground crew was the only one without a bomber -Had to board a train and go to Camp Patrick Henry, Virginia -Boarded a Liberty Ship and was on that for thirty one days -Finally arrived in Italy -Never got seasick -Other men got seasick -He was on the lower bunk and got thrown up on (00:23:53) Arrival in Italy �-Had no feelings whatsoever when he got to Italy -Considered himself to be an American, and only American, when he got there -Stayed in Naples for a week then took a train to the Adriatic coast -Knew they would be bombing targets within 800-900 miles of their base -Meant they would eventually bomb targets in Regensburg, Vienna, Budapest, and Ploesti -Went to Torretto Airfield -Airfield had recently been built -Set up their tents -Four men to a tent and they slept on cots -Didn't have any missions until April 1944 -Would get up early and have breakfast -Went on marches, hilles, and continued to do exercises to stay in shape -Had basic showers and toilet facilities (00:27:20) First Mission -First mission was to Nis, Yugoslavia -Bombing marshalling yards (train yards) -Faced little opposition -Mission began with a briefing -An officer telling them where to go and what their targets were -Got into trucks and were taken to their bombers -Part of a twenty four (or twenty five) bomber formation -One would take off at a time then they would form up in the air -Commander would fly up in a P-40 to get the bombers into formation -As the gunner he was assigned an area to watch for incoming enemy fighter planes -It was an experience he had been looking forward to -Had an intercom on the bomber so the crewmembers could communicate with each other -Pilot was able to communicate with the other bombers in the formation -The bomber was loud and cramped -Wore an electrically heated suit and had a sheepskin coat to keep him warm -Had an eagle eye view of the terrain -First mission was a success -Sense of elation that the mission was a success -Disappointed that they didn't see any fighters though (00:32:37) Flying Missions -Saw a lot of flak on later missions -On the mission to Ploesti they ran into fighters -Bombing the oil fields of Vienna they also ran into fighters -The main objective of the bombing campaign was to destroy Germany's ability to have oil -Without oil they couldn't fuel their mechanized military -Did pattern bombing -Bombers would fly in a V-formation �-Practiced what is known as "saturation bombing" -Dropping a massive amount of bombs on a small area -Didn't always fly at full strength -Some bombers were damaged and needed to be stripped of their parts -During one mission he got hit in the foot by a piece of shrapnel -Also lost their nose wheel and had to skid to a stop when they landed -Foot wasn't terribly injured -Didn't fly for four or five missions -More severe injuries required being evacuated to a larger hospital -Saw other bombers get shot down during missions -Knew men in those bombers -Would count the number of men that got out -Entire crew didn't always get out -Had to be confident that it wouldn't happen to them -Otherwise you couldn't handle the stress -Had to keep going knowing that friends had been killed (00:40:30) Morale -Morale was excellent -Knew they would fight until the war was won (00:41:02) Ground Crew -Had a great relationship with the ground crew -One of the crew chiefs was from his hometown -Guns would have to be cleaned after missions -Moisture from clouds would cause damage to the guns if they weren't cleaned -Ground crew would remind the gunners to fire their guns during missions -Kept the guns hot and curbed that problem (00:42:07) Bombing Raid at Ploesti -First time they encountered fighters was during a bombing raid against Ploesti -The enemy fighters had followed them in and then attacked -Bombers stayed close together to achieve maximum amount of protection -If a bomber lagged behind it was picked off by the enemy fighters -He was able to get a few shots off at the enemy fighters -Everything happened so fast though (00:43:40) Last Mission and Getting Shot Down -On the last mission that he flew they lost thirteen bombers -One of those bombers was his bomber -Took severe damage and the bomber split in half -He was able to get a parachute before he was sucked out of the plane -Only one of three survivors from his bomber -Landed in Austria somewhere -Glided down for 15,000 feet -Watched an American fighter plane shoot down a German fighter plane -He had been severely wounded -Leg, hand, and side had sustained severe injuries (00:47:54) Getting Captured-Mauthausen Concentration Camp -An old man came by and found him �-Later, three other men came and collected him -He was taken to Mauthausen Concentration Camp -The Austrians were totally impersonal toward him -Neither hostile, nor friendly -The concentration camp was being used for political prisoners -Taken to a hospital in the camp -After being treated he was placed in a barracks with the other surviving crewmembers -Kept in the bunks where the Jewish prisoners were -After four or five days Luftwaffe officials came to take them out of the concentration camp -He was the only wounded crewmember -Saw SS guards in the towers -Got taken there around 10AM (00:51:37) Getting Captured-Linz -He was taken to a hospital in Linz by the Luftwaffe officials -Knew that there were political prisoners being kept by the Germans -Didn't realize the scope and inhumanity though -Treated humanely by the Luftwaffe officials -The hospital in Linz was a Catholic hospital -Had a collection of Allied prisoners being treated for their wounds -Australians, Canadians, South Africans, Welsh, and two Americans -Most were prisoners of war that had been captured in Italy or North Africa -The German doctors there treated his wounds without anesthetic -Didn't want to show any pain -They didn't respect soldiers that showed pain (00:55:31) Getting Captured-Red Cross Hospital -He was transferred to a Red Cross hospital -There were about 1000 prisoners there -Treated by doctors that were also prisoners -Nationalities from all of the Allied countries -A lot of prisoners were dying from tuberculosis -Most of the Russians died of malnutrition first -Only kept there for about one week -Allowed to talk to other prisoners -Talked to the Canadian and English prisoners of war -The food there wasn't bad -Given a bowl of soup (00:58:10) Getting Captured-Stalag Luft 4 and Stalag Luft 1 -Received word that he was going to be taken to a camp in Poland -One guard was placed in charge of guarding three prisoners -Took them from Linz to Vienna -Took them to his house and introduced them to his wife and child -Escorted them to Prague -Took them to a USO-type show for German soldiers -Played cards with German soldiers �-From Prague went to Dresden -Dresden was a beautiful city before being firebombed -From Dresden went to Berlin -From Berlin he was taken to Stalag Luft IV -The Russians were advancing quickly so the prisoners were taken to Stalag Luft I -Took two weeks to travel west from Stalag Luft IV to Stalag Luft I INTERVIEW ENDS HERE; INCOMPLETE For the remainder of the interview, visit Youtube and begin here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni2ghD-mH8k � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/349044d393fe9a1aa1f38c689343730a.pdf 6def42cb8b425006aef44c14d2dc8f0f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Peter Godino World War II Youtube Interviews-8 Parts PART 1/8 10 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NDlvbxaDRo (00:00:14) Early Life -Born in Italy on November 16, 1921 -Came to the United States in 1930 -Father had lived in the U.S. since 1905 -Came to West Manayunk, Pennsylvania -Did not speak English at first -Did not face ridicule or prejudice for being Italian -Did not grow up in an Italian neighborhood -Got a hog once a year, helped a farmer harvest crops, and canned food -Helped during the Great Depression -When he was old enough he shoveled snow during the winters -Brought home the money he made to help the family (00:01:48) Enlisting in the Army -A man from his town had joined the Army and came back to visit -Looked like a good deal -Decided to enlist when he was old enough -Enlisted in the Army when he was eighteen years old -Went to the courthouse in Pennsylvania and enlisted there -Needed fresh recruits for the Army Air Corps -Enlisted in 1939 (00:02:48) Basic Traininig -Went to Bolling Field, Washington D.C. for basic training -Travelled there by train -Travelled with six or seven other recruits -It was the furthest that he had ever been from home -Had large, brick barracks -Starting to build wooden barracks by time he arrived -Wasn't very crowded at the time -Trained for two, or three, months -Drills, marching, and learning about Army etiquette (who to salute and who not to salute) -Food was the best that he had ever had -First time he had pork chops -Congressmen would visit to see how the living conditions were -Judged the Army based on the conditions that they saw at Bolling Field (00:04:30) Stationed at Bolling Field Pt. 1 -With basic training complete he was given an assignment at Bolling Field �-His job was to stoke the fires for the hot water heaters -Made sure that there was always hot water for the showers -Twenty four hours on duty, twenty four hours off duty -After stoking the fires he was transferred to operations -Like a regular civilian job -Pilots would file a flight plan -He would call it into an operations center that was across the Potomac River -Worked with six other men -Small operation because there weren't many planes at the time -Had some B-18s, AT-6s, and B-12s -Outdated for the time -Had one P-39 come in -Most of those were being sent to Russia though -Saw one P-40 and one P-35 -Always had an interest in flying -Didn't have the education to become a pilot -Just content to be around aircraft (00:06:43) Following the News of World War Two -Aware of what was happening in Europe and Asia -Knew that sooner or later the United States would get involved in the war -Knew that President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill were having meetings -Prime Minister Churchill came to Bolling Field once -Peter was part of the Honor Guard -Happened in February 1941 -Had to stand in the cold for four hours waiting for the prime minister -Saw President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill meeting on the airfield -Got the impression that England desperately needed help -He admired Prime Minister Churchill, but loved President Roosevelt -Believed that President Roosevelt saved the U.S. from collapse and conquest (00:09:25) Stationed at Bolling Field Pt. 2 -He was also in charge of parachutes before being assigned to operations -Had "$1 a year" men -Wealthy officers that had to get four hours of flight time in each year -They would come in and check out a parachute so that they could go flying PART 2/8 10 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oGWEQ8_T0w (00:00:02) Pearl Harbor -He was working in operations on December 7, 1941 and heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor -Came on the radio at 10 or 11 AM �-Restrictions began immediately -Leaves were cancelled -Could no longer wear civilian clothes on the base -Immediately went into a war time footing -He knew where Pearl Harbor was -Knew men that had been stationed at Hickam Field -Had initially believed that the war was going to come from Europe -After the trade restrictions began against Japan it became apparent they would attack -Knew that they would get desperate enough to attack (00:01:43) Glider Training -In 1942 the Army began the Glider Program -He took an aptitude test and was approved to be a glider pilot -Sent to Antigo, Wisconsin for glider training -Received primary flight training there -Got seventy or eighty hours of powered flight training -Got thirty five hours of glider training -Flew Piper Cubs -Small, single engine planes -Solo flew for six hours -The idea was to use gliders to carry troops into enemy territory -Similar to paratroopers, but a precursor to helicopters (00:02:43) Gunnery Training -At the end of glider training there were too many glider pilots -Half of the pilots were sent to be reclassified -He was selected for Gunnery School -He was sent to a gunnery school in Las Vegas, Nevada (00:03:09) Joining the 461st Bombardment Group -After training in Las Vegas he was sent to Wendover Field, Utah -Bomber crews were being formed there -He joined his crew, but was not assigned to a unit yet -The 461t Bombardment Group lost a B-24 in Huntington Lake, California on December 6, 1943 -The 461st then needed a replacement crew, so his crew was selected -Sent to Hammer Field in Fresno, California -It was a large base -Trained there -Shot at targets in the ocean -There was a limited number of bombers available for use by the crews -Meant they had to wait to train until a bomber became available -Flew training missions for the navigator and the bombardier -Spent a lot of time waiting or an available bomber -Pilot, co-pilot, navigator, and the bombardier were the men that needed training -Other crewmembers felt like brothers -Learned how to fly in formation -When they weren't training they would socialize with the other crews �-There was a definite sense of camaraderie (00:07:15) Deployment -His crew and their ground crew were the only ones that would have to go over on a ship -This was because they didn't have a bomber -Placed on a train and went to Camp Patrick Henry, Virginia -Boarded a Liberty Ship -Took thirty one days to reach Italy -Never got seasick -Other men got seasick -On the way over the man above him threw up on him (00:08:26) Arrival in Italy -No feeling when he arrived in Italy -Felt that he was an American and nothing else -Arrived in Naples -Stayed there for about one week -Boarded a train and went to Torretto Airfield (00:08:58) Stationed at Torretto Airfield -Knew that they would be bombing anything withing 800-900 miles -Bombed targets in places as far as Regensburg, Vienna, Budapest, and Ploesti -Airfield was next to a farm -Set up tents in the field adjacent to the runway -Slept on cots -Didn't have a mission until April 1944 -Spent a lot of time going on long marches and hikes PART 3/8 10 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmkzzxWl0WA (00:00:01) Morale -Knew the men that had been shot down on missions -Would count the parachutes that managed to get out of the bomber -He was confident that he was going to survive the war -Without that confidence you could not fly missions -Somber when they returned to the airfield knowing that some planes had been lost -Had to keep going -Knew that they were there for a purpose and would fight until they were victorious -Morale was excellent -Even the ground crews wanted to go up despite the danger -Had an excellent relationship with their ground crew -One of the crew chiefs actually came from his hometown (00:02:12) Flying Missions -On missions you had to fire the gun every five minutes or the gun would freeze up -Moisture would get into the barrel, and at -50°F it would freeze almost instantly -Mostly dealt with flak while on missions -First time he had to deal with German fighter planes was the bombing raid at Ploesti -If a bomber lagged behind it was usually shot down by enemy planes �-Dogfights would happen so quickly it was hard to engage the German planes (00:03:44) Shot Down -On the last mission he flew thirteen bombers were lost -One of those was his bomber -They had taken so much fire that the bomber split in half -He quickly got on a parachute -Just as he did he was sucked out of the plane -Out of the ten man crew only three men survived -Landed in Austria -At the time of falling out of the plane he only had the parachute half on -Part of this was because his hand had been severely injured by shrapnel -It took a while for him to land -Descending from a height of 18,000 feet -Watched a P-38 following a German Focke-Wulf fighter plane -After landing he laid down on the ground -His hand, his leg, and his side had been severely damaged from the shrapnel -Tossed away his pistol as soon as he could -Knew that he would have been shot if he was caught with a gun (00:08:02) Mauthausen Concentration Camp -An old man came by and found him -An hour later the old man returned along with three other Austrians -They placed him in a blanket and carried him to Mauthausen Concentration Camp -He didn't get the impression that the Austrians were necessarily hostile -More, or less, impersonal and apathetic about his presence -He had a cut on his eyelid -He was taken to a "hospital" in the concentration camp and was given stitches -He saw three tiered bunks full of prisoners -The survivors from his bomber were also there -After three or four days Luftwaffe officers came to take them to a prisoner of war camp PART 4/8 10 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YilCuNWN9Cg (00:00:01) Mauthausen Concentration Camp -Brought right up to the entrance of the concentration camp -He was the only injured airman -Saw some SS guards and a manned guard tower -Got to the concentration camp around 10AM -He was brought inside the camp and was taken to the "hospital" -Only his cut eyelid was treated, the other injuries were ignored -After three or four days he and the other airmen were collected by Luftwaffe officers -He was then taken to a hospital in Linz, Austria -While at the concentration camp he had to lay down all the time -Only had a bucket as a toilet -Saw some of the Jewish prisoners -He had heard about political prisoners, but didn't realize the scope of the atrocity �-He was shocked to see how the prisoners were treated by the Germans (00:02:42) Hospital in Linz, Austria -The Luftwaffe officers treated him humanely -The hospital in Linz was big -He was placed in a ward with other Allied prisoners of war -South Africans, Australians, Canadians, Welsh, and a couple Americans -Didn't know either of the Americans -Most of them had been captured in North Africa or in Italy -His leg was operated on by German doctors -Did not receive any anasthetic -Couldn't show any pain or emotion while being operated on -Germans respected a soldier that showed strength (00:04:49) Red Cross Hospital -He was transferred to a Red Cross Hospital -There were roughly 1,000 prisoners of war there from every Allied country -The doctors there were Italians -There were a lot of Serbs, Greeks, and Russians -Most of the Russians were dying from tuberculosis and malnutrition -He was at the Red Cross Hospital for about two weeks -He was allowed to talk to the other prisoners of war -He talked with the Canadian and English prisoners of war -Fed soup -It was a mix of dehydrated vegetables and insects that had gotten into the soup -Had initally picked out the bugs, but then just ate them (00:06:55) Transferred to Stalag Luft IV and Stalag Luft I -He was then taken to Poland by train -One German soldier was in charge of guarding three crippled prisoners of war -Taken from Linz, Austria to Vienna, Austria -German soldier invited the prisoners into his home to meet his family -Introduced them to his wife and his nine year old daughter -The day after that they got up before dawn and went to the train station -Waited there for fourteen hours for a train -From Austria went to Brno (Brünn), Czechoslovakia then to Prague, Czechoslovakia -In Prague they were taken to a USO-style show for German soldiers -Chance for their guard to get some sleep -There was a picture of Hitler right up front -They just sat in the back and played cards with German soldiers -From Prague went to Dresden, Germany then from Dresden to Berlin, Germany -Dresden was a beautiful city before it was firebombed in February 1945 -He was kept in an English prisoner of war camp for an hour of two -From Berlin went to a city on the Oder River then on to Stalag Luft IV -The Russian advance prompted the evacuation of Stalag Luft IV in February 1945 -Prisoners with leg injuries were loaded onto trains to be taken to a camp to the west �-Took two weeks to reach Stalag Luft I -Stalag Luft I was a pretty good prisoner of war camp PART 5/8 10 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni2ghD-mH8k (00:00:01) Transferred to Stalag Luft IV and Stalag Luft I -The German soldier lived in an apartment -Slept in the dining room with the two other prisoners of war -The German soldier was technically an Austrian -He had a heart condition and had fought on the Eastern Front -Wife treated them with humanity and hospitality -Passed through Berlin en route to Stalag Luft IV -It was a shell of a city that was kept running by slave labor -He had no doubt that the Allies would be victorious -Confident that the Allies would out produce the Germans -Berlin had been devastated by bombing raids -Didn't see many civilians -Arrived at a town near Stalag Luft IV -Had to walk from the town to the prison camp -Encountered some civilians on the road -All greetings had been replaced with "Heil Hitler" -Given a quarter loaf of black bread for the entire trip to Stalag Luft IV -In Prague they passed a bakery -A girl came out and asked the guard if it was okay to give the prisoners some food -The guard allowed it and she gave each of them a sweet roll -He learned a bit of German while he was a prisoner -The guard also knew some English so they could converse with each other (00:06:34) Stalag Luft IV -There were about 10,000 prisoners of war at Stalag Luft IV -2,500 of them were English -Some had been there for four years -Germans treated those prisoners with respect and as equals -There were only airmen at this camp -Kept under guard by watch towers and guard dogs -The camp was in the middle of a forest -He was placed in a barracks -Had to sleep on the floor -By October and November 1944 it was getting very cold -Only had an English uniform, an overcoat, and a pair of English shoes -There were two hundred men to a barracks -Twenty men to a room -Had a room leader and a barracks leader -Hierarchy was based on rank -Highest ranking prisoner was the leader -In his case it was an American officer �PART 6/8 10 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pNyKeOeuNw (00:00:03) Stalag Luft IV -The leader did all of the negotiations with their German captors -Reported any Geneva Convention infractions -Put together a radio so that they could get the news every night -He was quartered with other American prisoners -They weren't forced to work -Just spent a lot of time playing cards -Had to stand for roll call every morning -After that you could do whatever you wanted -Spent a lot of time just walking around the perimeter of the camp for exercise -Never heard anyone talking about an escape plan -Didn't see the sense in it -Heard about the Battle of the Bulge on the radio -Got a new prisoner every day -They would tell the other prisoners what they knew about the outside world -Most of the camp guards were old men -Didn't carry guns -They were surrounded by electrified barbed wire (00:03:20) Stalag Luft I -They started to hear artillery in the distance as the Allies and the Soviets advanced -Concerned that the Germans would kill all of them at the end of the war -Decided that if it came to that they would fight back -When President Roosevelt died the guards gloated about how the Americans were leaderless -Couldn't understand how the American government had fail safes in place -He had been placed on a train and taken from Stalag Luft IV to Stalag Luft I -One of 1,500 prisoners on that train -Only had melted snow to drink for water -There were forty men to a boxcar -Had a bucket for a toilet -Took eleven days to reach Stalag Luft I -Only ate what you had brought with you from Stalag Luft IV -There were 10,000 prisoners of war at Stalag Luft I -1,000 of them were English -Treated a little better at Stalag Luft I -He was placed in a barracks -Ran into his old co-pilot and waist gunner -The only survivors from his bomber crew -Both had wound up at Stalag Luft I after being captured -It was like reuniting with brothers -They had good showers at Stalag Luft I -Kept at Stalag Luft I from February 1945 to April 1945 �-It was boring -Get up in the morning for roll call, walk around, and wait for food (00:08:35) Liberation -Russians liberated their camp on May 1, 1945 -Never felt overtly threatened while at Stalag Luft I -Always concerned there would be a massacre at the end of the war though -Always just a rumor though -Went to bed on April 30 and were convinced the next day they would all be killed -Woke up the next day to find that the Germans had abandoned the camp PART 7/8 5 minutes 43 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGHRfuaDCUM (00:00:01) Liberation -The Germans had been building a solitary confinement building before they left -Had been working on it until they left the camp on April 30 -Everyone came out of their barracks and wondered what to do next -Soviet troops arrived in jeeps and on horses -Told to wait in the camp -Allied forces would be on their way to fly them out (00:01:05) Following the Russian Advance -He was sick of being in the camp and decided that he would follow the Russian advance -Started off on foot, then found a bike, then found a horse -Also hitched rides with Russian soldiers whenever he could -Went to Wismar, Germany -He would eat with Russian soldiers -Russians shared their food with him -Felt that it would be faster to travel with the Russians to get back to Allied lines -There were still pockets of German resistance -Went past areas where German and Russian soldiers were fighting -He went through Berlin after the Russians had taken the city on May 2, 1945 -City had been laid to waste -Felt that the Russians could have just surrounded the city and starved it into surrendering -He wasn't armed -He would stop at German farm houses and sleep there -Germans would allow him to stay and eat -Heard stories about atrocities being committed by the Russians -One woman said she was gang raped in front of her husband and son -He never saw it happen though -When he got to Wismar on the Elbe River two German women asked him to take their children -They didn't want their children to be around when the Russians arrived -He agreed to do it and helped them (00:05:19) Returning to England -Once he crossed the Elbe River he was in the British sector �-Went to Kiel, Germany and took a plane to Bath, England -Placed in a hospital there PART 8/8 5 minutes 24 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf7sbADKcgE (00:00:01) Coming Home and End of Service -Got on a ship at Southampton and sailed back to the United States -Other prisoners from Stalag Luft I had been taken to Camp Lucky Strike in France -It took him three weeks longer to get back to the United States -Got a worthwhile adventure out of going on his own though -In England he gave them his rank, name, and serial number for identification purposes -Once he was well enough to travel he went to Southampton to board the ship -Landed in New York City -Got to see the Statue of Liberty -He was then taken to a hospital on Staten Island -From New York he was sent to Wilmington, North Carolina -From Wilmington he was sent back up to Plattsburgh, New York -Had some dental work done there and then got discharged from the Army -After getting discharged he went to Philadelphia -Wife was living there with their child -He got to see his wife when he was in New York -They had a child he hadn't gotten to see before being deployed -Went to a cousin's house in Brooklyn and saw his wife there -It was like their honeymoon all over again -Upon returning to Philadelphia he finally got to see his child -He was discharged at Plattsburgh, New York on October 19, 1945 -Had joined the Army in December 1939 -Nearly six full years of service (00:03:43) Reflections on Service -Army helped to establish a basis for being an honorable person -Did something that earned him his right to be here -It was a good lesson in life -He wouldn't want it to happen again, but he would do it all over again if he had to � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_GodinoP1793V Title A name given to the resource Godino, Peter N (Interview outline and video), 2005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-10-20 Description An account of the resource Peter Godino was born in Italy on November 16, 1921. In 1930 he and his mother and siblings came to the United States to live with his father in Pennsylvania. When he was eighteen he enlisted in the Army and was placed in the Army Air Force. He trained at Bolling Field, Washington D.C. and served there until he joined the glider program in 1942. He trained with gliders in Wisconsin, but was reassigned to gunnery training. He received gunnery training in Las Vegas then joined a bomber crew at Wendover Field, Utah. The crew was assigned to the 461st Bombardment Group and they were sent for further training at Fresno, California. They eventually received orders to go overseas and wound up at Torretto Airfield, Italy. They began flying missions in April 1944, bombing targets in Regensburg, Vienna, Budapest, Ploesti, as well as in Yugoslavia. His bomber was eventually shot down and he was one of three survivors from his crew. He was then captured and taken to Mauthausen Concentration Camp, Stalag Luft IV, and finally Stalag Luft I. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Godino, Peter N. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f4b2f052ea3c2cf1bf68a08d90b13d0.mp4 011c15b7fecc1200fe11a3f74fe2452f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f89345b28dd7b747e6b1f688a7b859a2.pdf eb851c2365badf3555e42ce20d5eb47b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Era Father Robert Goedert 27:29 Introduction (00:08)          Robert was born on January 23, 1926 in Oak Park, Illinois. His father was born in Luxemburg and immigrated to the United States in the 1880s. He was four years old and he came over with his father. Once the pair had settled, they sent for his mother and other siblings still in Germany. The family settled in Chicago. Robert’s father finished 8th grade and was in the orphanage at the time because his mother had passed away and his father couldn’t take care of him. After he finished school, he moved back in with his father and got a job in construction. He eventually opened a hardware business. Robert was ordained in 1951, and was sent to New Orleans the following year to work in the parish there and he also taught at Jesuit High School. (02:39) He was in New Orleans for eight years, from 1952 to 1960. After that, Robert entered the United States Air Force in 1960 while still in New Orleans. His brother was a Navy pilot in World War II, and he was leaning that way. After conducting some research into what chaplains did in the Army and the Navy he decided to join the Air Force instead. The Air Force was better organized as far as the chaplains were concerned. Air Force (04:00)         Once he joined he did not have to conduct any additional specialized training. Overall, he enjoyed his military service; especially the worldwide travel and he really liked all the people he met along the way. Robert was stationed in Korea at the International Airport. He was assigned to two different chapels where he would conduct mass. Robert also serviced twelve smaller outposts that had troops. He tried to visit them once a week if he could. Some of the villages would have local missionaries. When he visited the troops, he would also visit with the local priests. (06:20) He was also stationed on Crete, an island in the Mediterranean Sea. The base was a listening post with fifty to one hundred antennas placed on the beach. There was about five hundred troops and another five hundred dependents on the base that he ministered to. While there, the only other priest in the area was Greek, who did not speak much English. (08:15) One of the blessings to being on Crete was that they were able to make pilgrimages to the Holy Land twice a year. One of the Catholic priests at the base had to go with, so Robert �              was able to go twice while stationed there. It was a ten day trip and it was a wonderful experience. While in Jerusalem, he met up with one of their priests who was a student at the Bible college there. Robert found that being in the military helped him do so many things that he never would have been able to do otherwise, especially reaching people and teaching the Catholic faith. (10:27) When he first entered the military, he was considered extended active duty for 15 months. He was then extended for longer. For a time he was also detached as a reservist in New Mexico. At that point, he started asking Air Force personnel to use him more often and allow him to do more things. (12:55) After being gone for five years, he was called back to the Air Force. And his first assignment back was in Greenland. To earn a ‘good year’, he had to serve so many days in that year. From 1960 -1988 he had accumulated enough days that he had to retire at age 65. (16:42) His memories of the Air Force were of the finest people in the world. He enjoyed his work very much, especially with those that had different religions or none at all. He also liked flying on various planes, jets and helicopters. (19:24) The people were open to him as a priest and an individual. When he started on a base, he was invited into people’s homes and got to know them well. When he came to peoples homes, he would bring his laundry to be done at the families government issued washing machines. On one base, the runway was a half mile wide and a mile long. It was completely resurfaced twice a day. This was because it was close to the beach and when the tide would come in it would leave a new hard surface. (22:40) When the wind was high, planes could not land on this runway. Once, when Robert was at this base, the plane came to pick him up but could not land because of the wind. The next day, the plane returned, but the wind was stronger than the previous day. The pilot brought it in for a landing anyway and explained that he had to be picked up that day because they had an important softball game the next day and he needed to play third base. (25:04) The first baseman on the team was 6’4” and Jewish. One day after a game he asked Robert if it was ok if he called him ‘Father’ even though he wasn’t Catholic. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goedert, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goedert, Robert Description An account of the resource Goedert was born on January 23, 1926 in Oak Park, Illinois. He became an ordained Dominican Priest in 1951 and served in New Orleans from 1952-1960. In 1960 he enlisted in the United States Air Force and served as a Catholic Chaplain. Father Goedert served in the Air Force until 1988, when he retired at the age of 65. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bursch, Karina (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-04-03 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoerdertR1505V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d50dcc903283cd2f4126d705c893be86.pdf c4316565700dc982d825a7bdd60765fd PDF Text Text Pandemic (For Bob) Chemical odors remind me My smell is still intact. Yet masked perceptions of facial emotions Cause fear in the way I react. Am I spreading illness? Impatient for test results I isolate with grimness And try hard not to sulk. Baby squirrels, cardinals and blue jays Remind me that beauty and joy Can be found in many ways. Yet, when stressed, it’s you I’ll annoy. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-08-09_GoehringM_Pandemic Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goerhing, Meri T. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-08-09 Title A name given to the resource Pandemic (for Bob) Description An account of the resource Poem by Meri T. Goehring. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University Grand Rapids (Mich.) Poetry Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/83d61c63133045aea0c9ccf6bf3e38ef.pdf 74f1ab18b8ca58c1916334a727d7ac2f PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW92-12-5 Title A name given to the resource Mrs. Samuel Reed from Alexis J. Goffan, Aug. 10, 1897 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1897-08-10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goffan, Alexis J. Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 United States. Army Military pensions Traverse City (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Letter from Alexis J. Goffan, guardian of Arthur B. Smith, requesting a copy of the discharge and death certificate of Smith's father. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7e7d181ad275402132d657fd121c8f9c.mp4 5bed064a3027295532491b550a44530f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/821ccc14664b4f957572e3b8fb19fcf1.pdf a4657712f422bcf1084f0d5ddd845580 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Donald Goins Interview Length: (00:59:18:00) Early Life (00:00:29:00)  Goins was born in 1921 in Sigma, Michigan in the present- day county of Kalkaska, although he did not grow up here. (00:00:37:00)  Goins’ father was a contractor and also did some trucking with the heavy- duty vehicles he owned. (00:02:15:00)  Goins was the 4th of 13 children in and African- American family. (00:02:54:00) o Goins had to quit school in the 8th grade to help manage his family. None of his siblings were able to finish high school. (00:02:58:00)  In the 1930’s, Goins moved to Zanesville, Ohio and began marketing produce. (00:03:30:00) o Some of his older siblings got involved in the same business in Columbus, Ohio. (00:03:50:00) o He worked “a majority of the time”. (00:06:10:00) o He was in charge of selling the produce to customers and received the product from southern farmers. Goins drove south himself to retrieve the items with one or more other workers. (00:07:27:00) o Regardless of the racial tension of the time period, Goins was not treated differently between white and black farmers due to the color of his skin and the stigma that came with it. (00:09:10:00) o Goins traveled to Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina to purchase produce. (00:11:30:00)  Before Goins entered the service, he also worked at a car dealership as a mechanic. (00:12:07:00)  Goins heard about the attacks on Pearl Harbor “through the grape vine” on the Sunday that it occurred: December 7th, 1941. (00:12:47:00) Military Experience (00:13:40:00)  Goins received his draft notice in 1942, but did not actually enter until 1943. (00:13:49:00)  Goins was sent to Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana in 1943. (00:14:20:00) o Goins was given “guard duty”, which involved patrolling the base after training. o While in Indiana, he was taught how to handle the weapons he would be required to carry, such as the M43. (00:16:39:00) o Goins recalls that if one misbehaved, he was assigned to “KP Duty”, or kitchen patrol. For more severe cases of disobedience, one was “court martialed”. (00:17:45:00)  After boot camp in Indiana, Goins was sent first to Tampa, Florida. At this point in time, he was married. (00:19:00:00) �           o His wife eventually joined him in Florida where she lived in a hotel. Goins was permitted to live with her in the hotel, off- base, and return to base during his required hours. (00:20:00:00) Goins moved around quite a bit while in the service. He traveled to Tampa, Tallahassee, and Venice while in Florida. He was also stationed in Georgia, South Carolina, and Texas. (00:21:35:00) Goins, being black, was not always given the position of his choice because of “the color of my skin”. (00:24:00:00) Goins’ primary unit was a mixed, transportation battalion and traveled together as it was relocated. (00:27:20:00) Goins dealt primarily on B-29 bombers when he worked as a mechanic. (00:29:25:00) o Goins notes that the repairs he made “practically rebuilt the entire side” of the plane at times. (00:29:40:00) o Goins learned most of what was involved in a mechanics work during basic training. He received no specialized training. (00:32:00:00) Goins’ highest rank achieved was sergeant, although he was eligible for officer training. (00:32:20:00) o African Americans and whites alike were receiving opportunities to advance in rank, according to Goins. (00:34:08:00) o Goins opted out of furthering his rank because he wanted to get out of the Army as quickly as possible. (00:34:27:00) Goins traveled by bus or train alongside his wife when he was reassigned to various locations about the country. (00:35:30:00) o Sometimes he and his wife were only given a few days’ notice before relocation. (00:36:40:00) As Goins increased his rank, he also took on new duties such as managing relocations from one base to another. Since he was black, he was placed in charge of only black troops. (00:39:18:00) o During these moves, black and white soldiers were separated in train cars. (00:39:40:00) o Goins was in charge of this task for a whole summer during his service. (00:40:12:00) o Goins had to be especially cautious of “lynchers” during the trips through the South. Black folk, like Goins, had to be readily aware of the racially charged atmosphere of the South and the probability of hate crimes aimed at those of African American descent. His brother came very close to assassination while on a trip in Mississippi. (00:40:40:00) During his time in the Army, Goins “grew up to be a man”. (00:43:10:00) Goins was happy to be stationed in the United States because he did not want to be sent abroad to fight. (00:43:49:00) Goins had 3 brothers and 1 brother-in-law that were in the service at the same time as he. (00:44:10:00) o One of them received a purple heart, and is since deceased. (00:44:47:00) As a sergeant, Goins essentially took the responsibilities of the officers as they moved between bases and consequently, were not always present. This earned Goins added respect from his comrades. (00:48:50:20:00) � After the war, Goins and his wife returned to Ohio for 6-8 months. (00:50:17:00) o Later, they moved back to Michigan for better work. (00:50:25:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goins, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goins, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Goins was born in 1921 in Sigma, Michigan, and grew up in Zanesville, Ohio. His family farmed and ran a produce trucking business that made regular trips to the Southern United States to market. Although Goins is African- American, he did not fall victim to the racially charged environment where he did business. He was drafted into the United States Army and entered the service in 1943. Goins completed basic training at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana, and then stationed on a series of air bases in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Texas, and eventually worked as a mechanic repairing B-29 bombers. He recalls having to be careful while traveling through the south due to fear of lynching, but also being offered the opportunity to train as an officer. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoinsD310V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1306ce9c53219e8c08612e4f19d88861.pdf 0c92c5df40d33df3e4bc3f0728e345ea PDF Text Text He reinemhers his 58 Marines It was surreal, slow motion: just like the movies. The Rev. Robert Bedingfield had just come into a clearing of the jungle with his outfit of Marines. (His Marines. He had come to think of them that way.) And then: Contact! Three North Vietnamese machine gunners plugging a way - tat-tat-tat, tat-tattat - a company of 44 Americans pinned to the ground with bullets whizzing over their heads. Suddenly, Bedingfield realizes, the lieutenant commander is down with blood pumping from his chest. This is the guy in charge. And just as suddenly, Bedingfield is in charge, barking orders, sending a man around behind to take out the machine gunners threatening his Marines. Bedingfield is telling me this calmly, voice steady, 22 years removed from the scene, sitting in his office· at Central Reformed Church. He is a pastor there now. I am asking about Memorial Day. I'm listening intently, knowing the background, wondering how it all worksout in the erui. 'llljj.is a -man, I know, who does not believe there can be a moral war. He had preached that when he was senior Protestant chaplain at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. Vietnam, he thinks, is as unjust as they get. Nevertheless, he volunteered to go there. And then, back to the picture of him carrying this wounded lieutenant commander on his shoulder, watching a North Vietnamese grenade spin on the ground a few yards in front of him. Grenade exploded across his flak jacket It explodes across Bedingfield's flak jacket, wounding him. He puts the lieutenant on a stretcher rotating upward toward a helicopter, the bullets pinging off the bottom of the metal beast. Soon the machine gunners are gone. So is the man Bedingfield sent to take them out. He is dead. The lieutenant survived. Fifty-seven others from his outfit also die during the chaplain's two-year stint in Southeast Asia. "Most of those 58 died with me present," he says. "I was rabbi, priest, minister. After a while the smell of the warm blood gets in your nostrils in a way that's almost haunting." Haunting: He means it literally. He went back to Vietnam this January, along with a group of some 20 Calvin College students and Charles Strikwerda, also a Vietnam vet, of the college's political science department. They traveled through a better part of the country, watching and learning and finding out that for the Vietnamese, the war is over. At one point, Bedingfield met a man named Nuygen Huoung. A professor now, speaking perfect English, Huoung had served in the North Vietnamese army. The two men found out they had been wounded at the same place, one day apart, on opposite sides of the enemy dividing line. "That was the beginning of the exorcising of the demons," Bedingfield said. In the Oliver Stone movie, "Platoon," the enemy, the North Vietnamese, never have faces, Bedingfield said. It is only after they are dead that you can make t their human.featur.esr The enemy was speaking in English Now, finally, _here was a face: the enemy, speaking in "beautifully clipped" Oxford English. They began to talk. Bedingfield got a sense for the absolute poverty of the North Vietnamese. They were fighting the war with a different sense of urgency than America had. For them, it was survival. "We could bring in all the technology in the world and we still couldn't win," Bedingfield said. The cost was tremendous. More than 2,300 Americans unaccounted for; more than 200,000 Vietnamese. Losses? More than 58,000 Americans; some 1.7 million North Vietnamese. And still, for Bedingfield and many other Americans, the nagging question: Why were we there? Back to Memorial Day: "Memorial Day calls me as a Christian to the , primary loyalty of asking who is Lord," Bedingfield said. "If Jesus is Lord, I have to be courageous enough to stand tall on those things in life that are worth dying for." . Yes, I asked, but how did you make sense of all this? How did all of this square with being the minister of a message of love and peace? It didn't, really, Bedingfield said. But if this war was going to happen - and it clearly was - somebody had to be there with that message. That is why every Memorial Day, it's mostly the 58 Marines - his Marines - that Bedingfield remembers. "I have a sense that God stands with these 58 I knew with outstretched, loving arms and says clearly, 'It was pretty awful, wasn't it?' " Bedingfield said. "And then he welcomes them home." � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_NWS_1990-05-26-Marines Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Golder, Ed Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990-05-26 Title A name given to the resource He remembers his 58 Marines Description An account of the resource Newspaper clipping about Rev. Robert Bedingfield, a Protestant chaplain at the Naval Academy in Annapolis during the Vietnam War. Subject The topic of the resource Military chaplains -- United States -- History -- 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80e7aaef934a0c1ad8c405204429bc0b.m4v ca7c004a3a63b1a684c904b09a6676b0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/10e61b4babd4de5199bd68f0a71a3d57.pdf 047dffcdaed26983a49dd7f920cd4ed9 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War Martin S. Goldrick Length of Interview (01:05:21) Background Born 1946; Washington D.C. Lived there for three years; father worked for the Internal Revenue Service Mother was a “vagabond” Moved often: Albuquerque, New Mexico; San Diego, California; Washington, D.C. Graduated from the University of Virginia In the Marine Corps.; highest rank- First Lieutenant  Afterwards, was promoted to Captain in the Marine Corps. Reserve, but never got the official letter from the President Both of his parents were in the Navy during WWII  His mother was a secretary  Father was a courier Service and Training (00:02:25) 1965, Congress talking about Draft Deferment during the Vietnam War, Goldrick was still in college  Didn’t want to be drafted, wanted to be an Officer  Marine Corps. had Platoons Leaders Class (PLC), signed up during his Sophomore year  Sent to Boot Camp; a lot of mental and physical stress  Six weeks of training during his summer, then six more weeks at the end of Junior year  Given a commission upon graduation  Sent to Quantico, Virginia  1968 received his commission as a Second Lieutenant of the Marine Corps. �From there, went on to Basic School (00:04:10)  Six months of training  Learned military tactics, how to lead a platoon (infantry), weapons (had learn to use all of them), nighttime marches  Had many men who were from other branches, all had to go through the same basic training Before the six months of training, had already graduated from college (00:05:10)  Vietnam was only just beginning to be spoken of, the escalation  Goldrick thought that they would be out of there by ’67 or ’68 Infantry MOS, sent straight over to Vietnam; other men in his class were sent to different schools (00:06:00) Sent to Vietnam in December of ’68, arrived in January of ’69 (00:06:30)  It was really hard to leave, got engaged and had many get-togethers with friends and family  Left out of Washington National Airport  Single Rotation, went in as individuals; Washington D.C. to Camp Pendleton Camp Pendleton, given his first Company (00:07:44)  Went through Escape-and-Evasion classes: learned how to survive  Led a company through these exercises  Assigned this same group of Marines, sent with these men to Vietnam; Officer-in-Charge  Got off in Okinawa to do some training  Remembers this vividly as they flew in on a bright yellow airplane �Recently got together with other men from his company from 40 years ago; remembers the beauty of Vietnam (00:09:00)  Saw the South China Sea, and the mountains  The Marines didn’t remember it that way Vietnam (00:09:40) Remembers landing in Da Nang, very hot  On the airfield for two days as he waited for his first assignment Sent to Fox Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division Located just south of Da Nang: protection of Da Nang from rocket and mortar attack from the North Vietnamese First Assignment: Commander of the Weapons Platoon: M-16 Machine Guns, 60mm Mortars, various anti-tank firearms (00:10:47)  All his troops were deployed to the field in different platoons On his first day in command, one of his men shot his own fingers off with a 60mm Mortar (00:11:17)  The man had dropped a mortar in and didn’t remove his fingers fast enough  Had a “casualty” the first day in command o Met this Marine later in his life during a reunion o The man had gone through seven months of rebuilding his hand First Platoon Commander (00:12:37) Within 30 days, a Lieutenant was injured during an action who had been assigned to protect bridges and road-crossings Goldrick was then called in to assume the position of First Platoon Commander Had this platoon from February to the first of August Patrolled the area; a very sandy area, many dunes (00:13:35) Searched for enemy positions Had very few firefights; his first firefight happened four weeks in and took no casualties �Stressed about traps and mines, a very psychological stress (00:14:15) Goldrick usually walked three men behind, near the Point Man Lost two or three Point Men (the injuries were not too severe) to bombs (usually C-4 or a hand grenade) disguised as C-ration cans in the first month There for six weeks (00:15:08)  Another battalion was nearby, had two Lieutenants from Basic School there  They both were killed during a brutal firefight  Goldrick and his men could hear the fight from where they were, never called in for support  Remembers thinking he may not make it through this  The turnover rate among Infantry Lieutenants was very high  Goldrick was fortunate enough to get through his tour without a scratch Operation Pipestone Canyon (00:16:16) Began major operations, Pipestone Canyon and Durham Peak  Main objective was to sweep high-concentrated enemy areas  The Viet Cong had been decimated in Tet  Up against North Vietnamese soldiers  Had to find bunkers, stashes, supplies  The entire division was made to do this o Were fighting in 100 degree temperatures, went from 180 lbs. to 130 lbs.  Enemy contact was very light, initially (00:18:33)  Goldrick’s Platoon found a cache of rice that could have fed a regiment of men for six months  Called for the General at Headquarters o Required Goldrick to get a haircut to look presentable to the amusement of his men � First major situation: an observation post spotted a VC Platoon, Goldrick’s Platoon was sent to stop them  Went through Elephant Grass as tall as the ceiling, very frustrating o Was told that if his platoon didn’t hurry up, they would call an airstrike on them, to which Goldrick said, “Screw you!”  Killed 10 and captured 12 VC o Goldrick was carrying an M-16, only used it during that sweep; his weapon misfired during that time o Awarded a Bronze Star for that operation o Extracted enemies from the river o Many of the soldiers wanted to show no mercy to the VC, but Goldrick prevented them from slaughtering the captured Two weeks later, spotted 50 NVA (North Vietnamese Army) in an area nicknamed Dodge City (00:23:40)  The whole battalion lifted off to engage them  Goldrick’s company created a blockade along with another  Had 7 choppers that got hit, Goldrick’s included o Recently did some research and found this fight described in a book called “Semper Fi: From Da Nang to the DMZ Marine Corps Campaigns” o Reads an excerpt from this (the Koreans were the other blocking force)  Went to alternated landing zones, took them an hour  Company F (Goldrick’s): 2 dead and 7 wounded  Only four NVA had wiped out 1/3 of Goldrick’s Platoon; this made Goldrick feel some respect for them Remembers that day very clearly, especially one of his soldiers who had, virtually, died right next to him (00:27:15) Three of the enemy was killed; then the last came out with his hands up (00:27:33) �One of his soldiers was shot in the head with a machine gun and survived it; Goldrick describes the path of the bullet This soldier received Stars and Stripes with a photo Near the end of his six months, Goldrick and his men were sent to the mountains, had been in dunes this whole time (00:28:41) Operation Durham Peak (00:29:04) Late July, Operation Durham Peak, Qui Son Mountains south of Da Nang and 10 km south of Hoi An  Enemy snipers fired at them as they climbed up  The hill right across from where Goldrick’s was having a firefight, all they could do was watch  That company, Hotel Company: took 6 dead, 16 casualties, a helicopter was shot down  A Cobra Chopper set right in front of enemy fire and suppressed it allowing the men to pull back; literally, a gunfight between that chopper pilot and the enemy This set up for what Goldrick considers his most frightening night (July 14) (00:30:40)  Knew the enemy was there in large numbers and had flares going off because of the wind  Had men throwing hand grenades all night because firing would make them reveal their position  Started receiving artillery fire right on their position, turned out to be friendly artillery fire  There had been a fire base set up at the bottom of the hill, was supposed to be firing at the hill behind Goldrick’s position  Fortunately no one was killed, Goldrick had run down to check positions  Eventually he got it shut off, but they did it again at 3AM  Goldrick was yelling at the top of his lungs to get it stopped  This was Goldrick’s last night, very unceremonious  Goldrick had been promoted to Battalion Civic Action Officer, his men were left without a Platoon Commander �There was no resting time during his tour (00:33:28)  Some men did get sent to a place called China Beach for in-country R&R  Didn’t really want to go there Side Story Had psychological stresses and battles  Was doing a sweep with another company who was flanking them  A tree line was booby-trapped with 3 155 Shells and killed six people instantly  Goldrick did become a little fatalistic in his thinking, but just went on and did his job He does remember one soldier, called the “Old Man,” who was an excellent Point Man; no casualties were taken from traps when he was on point for four months (00:35:00) Goldrick’s platoon been pinned down while trying to take out a bunker, but one man went through machine gun fire to take out that bunker single-handedly with a grenade; true heroism (00:35:35)  Goldrick had wrote him up for a Silver Star, but is still trying to find out whether or not he received it Entertainment and Morale (00:36:48) Mainly played lots of card games for entertainment; also played music, lots of boom boxes; wrote letters  Goldrick really encouraged his men to write so they could keep up communication with those back home  They received letters regularly  Their First Sergeant for the company always made sure they got a mail-drop as often as possible  These usually came with two cans of beer for each troop  Also sent out ice cream, too; very much appreciated  Drank PBR and Schlitz beers  Sometimes received Care Packages, usually were damaged; but when one did get through, the men shared it between each other �The morale was strained (00:39:00)  1969: disputes about Black Power boiled up  Goldrick thought this was sad because in the Marine Corps, you learn that you are one  Some black marines began to segregate themselves  Remembers being in a Battalion rear o The Battalion rears were overrun two or three times while Goldrick was there and he would have preferred to been out in the field  There was threat of a racial riot in which Goldrick and other officers and were made to put on their sidearm and patrol the battalion compound o This also happened in the States when Goldrick went back to Camp Lejeune  The troops were trying to frag officers and themselves so they could get out of the country o When Goldrick was reading on the history of the Vietnam War, he found some passages that spoke of the drop in morale during 1969 o They had to give so much time and time again and still they had to go back to give more  It was up to the Staff and Officers to keep morale up and keep them going Kept very little contact with the civilians (00:43:17)  Would sweep villages and had candy for the children, but that was all the contact they really had with the native people  The most contact was when they were guarding a bridge  When he became a Civic Action Officer, he had more contact Civic Action Officer (00:44:00) Promoted to Battalion Civil Affairs Civic Action Officer with the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines; located in Hill 55 outside the village of Di Lac south of Da Nang  Held Medical and Dental Programs in the village  Built two new school rooms for the kids � Had the kids come to the battalion headquarters so they could have parties  Hired civilians to work on the base  Damage Claims Officer: compensated civilians for damaged properties  Was also the Psychological Operations Officer: arranged for the leaflets drops telling the enemy to give up  Had an interpreter o Hired the interpreter’s girlfriend and eventually attended their wedding o At the wedding, older people gave them betel nut and tiger beer (both are narcotics); he had a great time  Befriended the local PF (Popular Force) Leaders o A Catholic Priest had a parish in Di Lac (00:46:55) o Was a North Vietnamese educated in France; had fled to the south to escape the influences of the communists in the ‘50’s and set up a Roman Catholic Church o Had to medevac 15 women and children, the priest was having a festival in his church yard o A Viet Cong sapper came up and parked his bike by the fence and left it there, it blew up and destroyed the yard and injured those women and children o A tactic the VC used often, Goldrick saw these thing often  Felt that he did some good when he was in this position; it had carried him through the years as something positive instead of totally negative That priest, when he was leaving, thanked Goldrick and the country (00:48:50)  “I fled for freedom of religion. We know we don’t have the best leadership, but at least you’re trying to give us a chance for the freedoms that we want.”  This statement has carried Goldrick through the years Stories (00:49:35) �At the tail-end of a sizable operation; his platoon was the last to be pulled out and they were being taken out by a CH-53, “Jolly Green Giant”  In the landing zone and the rest of battalion had already been evacuated, the pilot was “hot-dogging” it and landed the tail right into the ground  This caused the copter to flip upside down and break its blades, it then caught on fire  All the ammunition in it was going off; it burned for about two hours  Goldrick had already sent one squad back, but the rest were told to stay and guard the chopper site  It was a frightening situation because this fireball could be seen, and heard, for miles around; fortunately they didn’t get hit that night Goldrick never went to see any of the shows there, but he sent some of his men (00:51:25) Did get to have R&R after being given the Civic Officer position, went to Hawaii and saw his fiancée; there for only a week (00:51:58)  On the plane ride back to Vietnam, Goldrick had the feeling that he would never come back When going back home, was sent to Okinawa first (00:52:55)  Had to turn his gear back in, some men complained about this  He even had to turn in his jungle boots, he has never forgotten this because he had those boots the whole time he was there; still ticked off about it  Went to the Air Force Officers’ Club at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa with four Marine Infantry Officers and six Helicopter Pilots  Got tanked and heckled the Air Force Officers for having never seen a war below 50 thousand feet, but they weren’t thrown out  It was a shock going from a War-zone to a place of relative peace, overwhelming  Stayed there for three days, flew out on the “Freedom Bird” as they called it  Landed in El Toro, then took a civilian flight back to Dulles Airport, Washington D.C., where he met his parents and fiancée (0:54:42) o It was a surreal experience, wasn’t quite sure how to act �o Bought a 1969 Dodge Charger after seeing it at the PX and saving his money, a very joyous moment o Got married in March, had returned in January Felt so proud when he went in as a Marine Officer, but so ticked off when he came back; made the decision to not let any of his children serve in the U.S. Military (00:56:10)  Was angry at Kennedy for getting the U.S. into the war, really angry at Johnson for not handling it well  Very ticked-off at the entire system  Was at a formal dance with his wife and had left his uniform’s hat in the coat room; someone had taken it out to the parking lot and stomped on it Was in Camp Lejeune, where Goldrick had a company in Infantry Training, and was on the tarmac ready to police the riots going on in Columbia University (00:57:35)  Feels that it was a good thing they did not go Went to The Wall, a healing point (00:58:30) Went through psychological therapy for his anger issues, PTSD (even though at this time such a disorder was not diagnosed) Was struck when he saw these young men in a bar having fun and realizing what was taken from him because he fought a war that no one appreciated Went to the VA and talked to the counselor there who said that because he was an Officer, he was only borderline PTSD because he had control (01:00:10)  To which he thought, “I didn’t have control over shit.” Visiting The Wall was a cathartic experience for Goldrick Was in the Marines for a total of three years, ’68-’71 and three more years in Reserve (Camp Lejeune) (01:01:45) July 14, 1969 was the worse day in his service Remembers the first Marine Corps Ball where he went with his fiancée which was the highlight of his career, very proud to have been a Marine Officer Credits the Marine Corp. for his success in civilian life for showing what he could actually do (01:03:35) �He’s disturbed by what is happening now because it is similar to what happened to him If they get the rug pulled out from under them, he’ll be pissed � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goldrick, Martin (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goldrick, Martin Description An account of the resource Martin Goldrick was a Marine Officer who served during the Vietnam War from 1969 to 1971 as a Platoon Commander, then as a Civic Action Officer working with Vietnamese civilians. He discusses combat operations in detail, as well as some of the issues confronting him as a Civic Action Officer. He also discusses morale and race issues within his units. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wainright, Terry (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoldrickM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61b95429dbe0bf3288fa99d75e8fe2d2.mp4 60ff07bf5b99036ac083bfc33ae8e2e8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2c006ccc82049de6d5c5d005c4cf193f.pdf 6c44df5c20edc3f7f4aff26450e40901 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Paul Golembiewski Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: November 6, 2025 Dani DeVasto (DD): I'm Dani DeVasto and today, November 6, 2025, I have the pleasure of chatting with Paul Golembiewski. Hi, Paul! Paul Golembiewski (PG): Very good. Thank you. DD : Thank you. Paul, can you tell me where you're from and where you currently live? PG: Grand Rapids, Michigan. Rockford, Michigan. It's not far. The same places basically. Went to school at the University of Michigan State. What am I saying? University of Michigan? Michigan State. Graduated with two degrees, horticulture and crop and soil sciences and have been working my own business for 43 years. And have lived here for 48. DD : And your business is? PG: Expressive Horticulture. Landscape design, installation, problem solving. I throw a lot of pesticides out there, so I'm aware of chemical use. And that would be of benefit probably to this discussion also. I'm lived here very intensely. Um, city lot. Planted 40 trees. Someone told me the last thing I planted was my feet. <laughs>. DD : And how long have you been in Rockford? PG: 47 DD : For 47 years? PG: Yeah. DD : 1 �Awesome. Paul, can you tell me a story or several stories about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? PG: Um, I'd like to start with a story that I was six years old and my parents loved to ride around on Sunday afternoons and, uh, in the old Oldsmobile with no AC and I'd get the middle of the backseat 'cause my sisters got the windows. And my dad was told of a gentleman in Rockford who had animals in cages on his front yard. My dad worked at Fisher Body and he knew he was a very good oh politician. Met a lot of, met a lot of people and knew them well. And so he'd always have conversations on where to go on a Sunday afternoon because he'd like to drive. So we ended up, my my recollection is we came down Oak Street and we went across the railroad. And the first house on the right was Mr. Cahill's house. The gentleman whose name is used on our road. PG: And sure enough, there were cages in the front yard. There was a, there was a bear, there was a black large cat. There were peacocks walking around. I think there might've been some monkeys. My sister Sue got out of the car and ran up the front door, and Mr. Cahill, you know, came to the door and invited her in the basement to look at other animals. And here's my parents not doing anything like, oh, yeah, go ahead. I mean, they, they didn't, they didn't give her permission, she just, just went. DD : Wow. PG: So she emerged about 15 minutes later, and while I was waiting, I looked to the, uh, northwest, which is where this development that I live now is, and it was totally barren. There wasn't a stick of a grass or weed, anything, nothing. And the smell...watering my eyes and burning my nose. And I asked my dad, what's that smell? And he says, oh, that's pig. That's why nobody moves to Rockford. DD : Hmm. PG: <laugh>. So later I found out that where I live was basically a field of the waste from the vats at Wolverine. And when the smell got to be too bad, they trenched it in. Now jump ahead 50 years. And this became a development. Nobody has record of where those trenches are. Nobody has any information on what was in those trenches, except it's obvious, it's lead, mercury, chromium, and likely PFAS later on. So this whole development had likelihood of a lot of contamination. Consequently, uh, because of HIPAA, you can't get enough information to know how people's health are, you know, their health is around here. But in my experience, there have been four premature deaths and several people with blood, bone and, um, oh, muscle activities, you know, that they can't do anymore. Um, two 10year-old kids who were next door to each other, but they were 10 years apart, and they played in the same sandbox. And when I got involved with Lynn McIntosh, I was responsible for taking soil samples. And I, I found that, uh, kind of a shaded area where the sandbox would've been between their two properties. It was right on the property line, and I took a sample and, uh, it was sent off to Prein and Newhof to be analyzed. Uh, it never came back. And Lynn and I found out later that all the samples were 2 �lost, or they were tossed intentionally. And that's because Wolverine instructed them to, they didn't want any of the soil tested from Rockford. DD : But you guys were paying for those tests? PG: Well, we never paid for 'em, because they never came back. <laugh>, DD : but they were like your own private tests? Samples? PG: Yeah. It was, it was very disheartening. We took other samples, and I think Lynn may have sent some of them out. Um, so let's keep this in some sort of chronological order. I'm jumping around a little bit. DD : Can I ask you a question? PG: Sure. DD : Um, Mr. Cahill, who is he? PG: Oh, he was the mayor, the chief of police, the, um, uh, the governor, the, um, he was every officer that could be possible for the city of Jericho. And, um, I went to his house about four or five years ago, and there was a new owner, and I asked if there were any, any sort of documents, any sort of newspapers of any sort left up in the attic, maybe used for insulation or anything. And they said they'll look, but I've never heard back from them. Um, but the, yeah, the city of Jericho was, uh, a sad place to be, unfortunately. Just, just a little side note. The, uh, just to the east of the bridge that goes over the Rogue River, that is the Jericho Road. There is a sandy level surface there. It's the only such surface that I know of on the Rogue River. I've canoed it a couple times. And the gentleman who bought the property there, Mill Pond, built the condos, did research to find out that that was an Indian trading post for 10,000 years. <laugh>. DD : Wow. PG: Yeah. And here's, uh, Jericho came in, put up a dam to flood their entire trading area. And the Indians just decided to leave. They, they didn't have much left to hunt anyway, because all the forests were gone, so the animals were not there anymore. So they basically agreed, you know, there was no 3 �skirmish at all. And, uh, so Jericho became a horrible place after a while. They were nice and friendly to the Indians at first. Now I got all this is, this is not directly from the Indians, but this information I got from Charles Hornbach, who was the owner and developer of that property. And he went back through archives, actual physical pieces of paper and the internet, and found this information. And, um, I'm very grateful for him doing that. And while I did the landscaping there, I found countless number of arrowheads and pieces of pottery, you know, so that, yeah. You can tell there was life there for a long time. Yeah. Anyway, so how about the next subject? DD : <laugh>. Alright. So, so you, yeah. You were six and seeing these animals in cages and seeing the, just the barrenness of the land up here. Um, and then you were talking about the, the trenches. But that there are no, there's no record, no. Of where the trenches have gone. And I assume no testing? PG: Uh, intentionally. And we'll get to that later. Living with PFAS, that's, that's the stuff that, um, this little interview will be very much valuable for with the information I have. But later on, I was told by the great, great grandson of the homesteader of that property, Mr. Giles, he said his grandfather was told it was fertilizer and to dump it on the, on the ground. And they could be in, in some way, having, you know, better crops, didn't do anything but kill everything. DD : Oops. PG: Yeah. Um, there's, there's a couple of side notes on that. I, I guess I could say this now that he told me that right along my property line was a two track that went to the railroad, that Wolverine at about, uh, 1915, got permission to dump their waste on the railroad's property because it was lead. A lot of, uh, arsenic is lead. So the railroad would spray the railroad bed twice a year with arsenic. So in this case, from, from what is my property line to 12 Mile became a dumping site right alongside the railroad. Because the, the terrain was possible to run a, what would be a, if you can imagine a truck from the 1915s, you know, the wheels are about, you know, six inches across and there may be 20 horsepower or flatbed. And they had barrels on them, and the barrels would slosh around while they would go, you know, down the two track and across and down to the railroad's property, and they'd dump them, just kick 'em off. PG: And imagine, you know, how ridiculous that would've been. But, so that was what Mr. Giles told me. So that's, that's firsthand information. I asked the DEQ if they could test the railroad, and they told me, oh, they already did. And there's nothing, there's, there's no lead. It's all set. Right. You got a hundred years of applying arsenic, and then you got Wolverine dumping on it. It doesn't make sense that it doesn't have contamination. I tell everybody to keep their dogs on the asphalt, and if it's a dry, dusty day, don't go out there because the dust is gonna be blowing and you're gonna get inhaling it. PG: Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I skipped over the story between the two kids that were 10 years apart. Um, yeah. Uh, let's see. Kruisenga, Derek Kruisenga and his neighbor, neighbor of 10 years later, her name was 4 �Tammy, I don't have her last name. They both died of the same very rare nasal cancer. And it's because they played in that same sandbox, and there wasn't enough sand in it. And if you look at the terrain, it was right on top of a, of a ridge that the truck from 1915 would have then dumped and probably spilled over and ran down the hill, and probably on the wrong side. And so that area right there is probably very, very contaminated. And they were playing in the dust, and they both had a very horrendous death. They, they suffocated they had cancer in their sinuses that couldn't be cured. PG: Um, yeah. And I was really quite amazed that the, the doctor that was treating, um, Derek actually diagnosed that. He said, this is a chromium toxicity. And at that point, no one had even thought of that, so whatever happened to that information I don't know. It never was then found to be a serious issue, which again, at the end of this interview, I have a a point to make, but, well, let's see. Let me go on to, oh, yes. <laugh>, our founding fathers, can I mention their names? They're long gone. Rockford's founding fathers. Mr. Blakesley, Mr. Farmer and Mr. Krause. Mr. Krause was the architect of Wolverine Worldwide. In 1905, Ford began to want chrome bumpers. Mr. Kraus had been to Europe and saw where their plating process was great for cleaning up hides from pig hides for, for leather, because the acid would eat the remaining flush away without any having physical work to clean it. And in that same vat, there were lead, mercury, and chromium, which made the leather heavy and ductile. So their boots that they made at the time. They would advertise 'em as a hundred year boot <laugh>. I wouldn't wanna, I would imagine that. But, um, so that's how Mr. Kraus made his money. Now, these three gentlemen all agreed to allow the dumping of that solution wherever Wolverine wanted to get rid of it, because that was Mr. Krause's venture, and they all knew it had lead. Lead has been a poison for 6,000 years. So they just said, oh, okay, fine. No, the next generation will take care of it or the next. And they never kept, never kept any records. Uh, they did own Bell Disposal in the sixties, and basically it just disposed of their liquid waste up to House Street DD : Who owned Bell Disposal? PG: Yeah, the, uh, gentleman that told me that he lived on 10 Mile and was able to see the vats and the solution sloshing out as they go down the road. And some of the hides would come out and he'd run out in the street and pick 'em up and play with 'em. And today he's blind. DD : And Krause owned Bell disposal or Wolverine did? PG: Wolverine did, yeah. Krause was the, he made his money in, in lumber, and, uh, then went into the, uh, tanning industry. And disposed of all the waste wherever he could. But he picked up the waste because of the booming plating industry, because of the Ford company. All throughout Rockford, which would be Keeler Brass, McInerney Spring & Wire, and probably three dozen other little, you know, outlets that were plating. And when they, they could only use that material for about six to eight hours, then it'd get contaminated. So they would change it out, and Wolverine would come and pick it up for free, and they'd put their hides in it. And then they dispose of it wherever was easy for them to dispose of, which in my degrees, I could tell where the foliage was incorrect. Where the, the growth of trees had been 5 �suffering and lead grows trees to death. It, it accelerates their growth. So you would find, um, elm, box elder, uh, choke cherry, all soft wooded trees along the, along the trail and in other places I found about 104 that were showing very, um, disfigured growth and a lot of dead growth. I gave a partial list of that to the EPA during a, um, interview, and they pretty much discarded it. DD : Hmm. That must have been disappointing. PG: Yeah, I think I mentioned this when we talked earlier, um, that only, that was about six years ago, that the EPA was looking for liaisons that would be able to talk to the community through information that they would give us. It was not that at all. It was just a ruse. It was to find out how many people knew how much, and to make sure that that information wasn't so widespread that people would panic. So it was an attempt to just feel around to understand who knows what and why. And I'm sure they got to me, they didn't want anything to do with me. They didn't want me to go out and start telling people what I know. Because <laugh>, that would not be DD : You knew too much. PG: They would, they would, I don't wanna panic people. Yeah. In fact, I want to do the other. But, um, we'll get to that at the end of this. Let me go on with my stories here. I'll, I'll go a little quicker. Um, I have a gentleman friend that I've known for several years. He and his wife live just over on Childsdale. And Carol had a condition that was never, uh, diagnosed and she had lower GI um, cancers and chronic pain and such that it was just horrific. Um, the back of their house is a ravine that had some water in it, which is the MO for Wolverine. They look for places just off the roadway that are already wet, and then they, they can dump their liquid and it's not as obvious. And, um, the gentleman that lived in that house before worked for Wolverine and had nine foster kids. <laugh>. DD : Oh my. PG: So it really didn't work. So what the fact was, he was being paid by Wolverine to dump, and at Carol and Conrad's backyard. And I had that as one of my sites with the EPA, and I never got notice back. But Carol had very serious health issues. And, uh, they divorced. And she's, she's okay. She's had a lot of surgeries, and she's been through chemo several times. So, and that's one story. Uh, let's see another story. DD : And those were neighbors of yours on Childsdale? PG: Yeah. Right up here, about a quarter mile away. My, uh, former cousin-in-law, Tom Breihof lived, he, he passed away from, again, lower GI cancer concerns. And he lived on the site that was later, much later, 6 �announced that from House Street to the Grand River, there was an underwater or underground, um, movement of that water from House Street, which was where there was a large amount of contamination for almost 20 years. Boy, you see what they do with that now. They really cleaned it up, maybe, but he lived and he had a well, and he drank his own water there, you know, so that was likely how he was affected. I've had two other accounts in that neighborhood. Um, one, the gentleman died when he was in his mid fifties of cancer. The other, while I was working there, they had health issues, and their backyard was literally seeping water, and they were lower than House Street on the other side of 131 Highway. By about maybe a half a mile, but they were right on top of that aquifer that was draining into the Grand River. And, uh, my job was to drain their backyard. Didn't know it at the time that it was, you know, likely PFAS. The water was, um, very, uh, it had an iridescent sheen to it, so it had oil in it. Um, but it was, it was a lot. I mean, we, we, we put in three tile lines and they ran water out just constantly into a wetland area behind their house, which then I also gave to the EPA. I get nothing. It's, it's, it's right around houses that are worth half a million dollars. And that's another issue that drives this. Property values. PG: So let's see. Next story. Oh, yeah. Right near the Rogue off of 12 Mile, Rogue River, there's a, uh, a development, it's a dead end road. There are 10 houses on that street. I did work for two of them. And while I was there, the account that I was working on said that there were nine people in those households, nine outta 10, that were suffering from cancer and are not expected to live. They all had wells, and they all were on a wetland or near a wetland that was used by Wolverine. Another site I gave to the EPA, nothing happened. Um, right now there's a, there's a new dog park just down the street from there. <laugh> and I, I look at that and I, I, the dogs have access to the river and, you know, people are there, you know, they, they've got a drinking fountain. I don't know. It must be a, well, I don't think so. I don't know. They must have had city water come into there because this, this development also had city water. But just recently. It had been almost 15 years that they were still using their wells. And all those houses sold out. I mean, they, they sold most everything, all those people that were there when I was there. They all sold their homes. DD : And left. PG: Yeah. So you know, talk about you don't really wanna publicize this stuff. But you have to. But, but there's, there's concentrations in places that are overwhelming. And then there's just a general understanding that, that these contaminations exist everywhere. I, I can drive down the road and I can look at just off the, off the side of the road, if there's a wetland area, you can right away see that it's contaminated. There's one DD : What, what kinds of things do you see that clue you in? PG: Trees that are growing like this <laugh>. I mean, they just don't, they have a very poor form, or they've rotted away, and then they're still trying to grow some more growth on them. And, you know, they're, they're terrible in that they, they can't, you know, they're growing too fast. They're, they're trying to, uh, 7 �grow more cells. It's cancer. And there's a, there's a holding pond at Rockford Public Schools, right between baseball fields. And that was a site that I told the EPA was, you know, to go test for. Two weeks ago. Now, this was nine years ago, eight years ago, I told 'em to. Last two weeks, they put up signs, metal signs every 30 feet. Caution, stand back. Do not enter, do not approach. Very serious language, very serious metal signs. Probably cost as much as a fence would've been <laugh>. But I'm sure that, you know, teenagers will be teenagers look, you know, looking through this and go pick up frogs that are, you know, dead and dying in there. DD : So someone's doing something PG: Yeah. That, what is is that? It's just a bandaid, you know? PG: Uh, let's see. Um, oh, I was on a, a site on Plainfield. And, um, this was for a, oh, a little retail, a strip mall. And I was in charge of the outdoor landscaping and such, and I was there to make sure that the excavation was gonna take place correctly. And, uh, we had an excavator putting in the, uh, I think it was a gas line. And he excavated down and he found metal barrels down about four feet in the ground. And so we dug around a little bit, and there were about half a dozen of them. They called the township, um, inspector over. And the inspector looked at them and waved his hands like this and walked away. They reburied the barrels and they rerouted the line. DD : Oh. PG: That, that whole area, that Plainfield and East Beltline was once a swamp. It was barely trackable in the 1900s. And then they put in a little sand, um, berm. So, you know, you could run a little truck over it or something. But, but that was all filled in. And that is also the location of Plainfield Township's water supply. It's the, the lake, DD : The current, the current location? PG: Yes. It's, it's the lake right to the east. It's, it's even got a public swimming area. No boats allowed, but I can't remember the name of the lake right now. <laugh>. But, but, uh, that's DD : Is that Versluis? PG: Versluis. Thank you. Thank you. So that's their water source for Plainfield Township. I was told by a prominent person regarding the, uh, they worked at the Plainfield, uh, offices and, 'cause we, I, I 8 �brought up the fact that that was all filled in and I can't imagine that that lake has clean water at all. And, uh, she said that the incidences of cancer and serious, serious health issues in Plainfield is 30% higher than the national average. They don't want that publicly known. Also, in the 1940s, there was a landfill just to the south of that by a quarter mile up by where Robinette's is. Just the other side of the road. You'll see these mounds that are there, and you'll see the pipes that come up every so often. So the, the property near Robinette's to the northeast driving down East Beltline, you'll see that there's this barren hillside with pipes sticking up and it's all fenced off. That was a landfill in the thirties that Wolverine used to dump serious amounts of PFAS and that drains into Versluis Lake. Now, they went through extensive amount of effort to ensure that the, that landfill doesn't have the opportunity to have enough water sourced actually, you know, penetrate the ground and go into the lake. So what they did was they, they put in wells, put in probably 30 wells all around so they could suck the water out continuously. And then on a Sunday afternoon, a Sunday morning, for some reason I was going down East Beltline and there's no churches there that I go, I don't go to church <laugh>. Sorry. So there's a lot of churches there. PG: But on a Sunday morning, I was going by there and there were, uh, at least a hundred guys that were rolling out white PVC over that entire, like, 10-12 acres site. And they were gluing the seams together. And then they, later on in the week, they then brought in top soil and put top soil over the PVC liner. So that way there's no water that can get through. Imagine the expense. Yeah. It's just an, an incredible expense. Why in, why does Wolverine get away with this? You know, it's so many ways in places that they've contaminated, it would be impossible to clean them all up. But this one is possible. It's a very condensed area. It's just like House Street. DD : That landfill. I think I've heard about it before. It's, um, Wolverine, this was not, Wolverine was not the only company dumping there. PG: Correct. It was not DD : So that, that also probably gets them out of PG: Yeah. Liability had to be stretched out over several people. And what, and then Wolverine could say, excuse me, <laugh>. DD : Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Okay. PG: Yeah. Okay. Let's see. What do I got here? Oh, I worked at the, uh, the CEO of Owen-Ames and Kimball, um, who built most of the schools in Rockford. I worked at his house for 25 years. Um, the house is worth probably 10 to 12 mill. It was right on the Rogue River. And, um, he told me the story of when he 9 �bought the place that it was just a little shack and it was all in need of all kinds of things. Of course, being involved in <laugh> Owen-Ames and Kimble, things got really fixed up and really very nicely. And, uh, the wellhead that was part of the original house was right next to the front door. And on the north side of the house, about 50 feet away was a wetlands that was right off of Algoma. And there was a nice little roadway back to four other homes further out into the woods and on the Rogue. And, uh, that was a site that Wolverine used. Um, the owner of the house knew it. When I told him what information I knew, he and his wife looked at me like deer, you know, staring at the headlights because they didn't want, they didn't want any way of suggesting that they already knew that 'cause their property values. And, uh, so the, the wellhead was moved to 150 feet away from the house, right at the very farthest point of their property. And the furthest they could get away from that wetland. Um, they still had five, six gallon containers of water delivered to their house every week. They still had a refrigerator in the garage stocked with bottled water. And all their grandkids and their kids all drank from that. Nobody drank from the water. But he was very smart. He probably had that tested soon after they moved in because he may have even suspected that the growth of those trees was not right. Everything was just twisted and gnarled and, uh, and it's right on the Rogue River, which, let's see, that is, yeah, that's, uh, upstream from where I discussed about the nine households that had cancer. But there are several other places along the Rogue River that are very easily accessible. And again, the MO of Wolverine is to have found a way that they could just park alongside a road or pull into a very, uh, well established roadway that's solid enough for a very heavy truck to dump all the liquids into the wetlands and down a slope. PG: It's a, it's really obvious to see those places and, you know, right away the trees, most people will probably think, well, that's just wetland and that's what trees look like when they're sitting in water. That's not the case. I can show you plenty of cases where there are wetlands that don't have that. Well, anyway, uh, <laugh>, uh, let's see. Oh yeah. Recently, I had an account. Well, let me, let me back up on, on Lake Bella Vista. Are you familiar with Lake Bella Vista? DD : Yes. PG: Okay. I don't think there's a home on the lake, no matter how small or how insignificant it is, that isn't worth over a mill. Right now, I've seen houses that are worthless places on the lake selling for 2.3. DD : because they're on the lake? PG: Yeah, they're on the lake. Um, I did the condos on the lake back in the early nineties. And, uh, there were two wells that were drilled on the condo property that were designed to keep the lake full of water because the lake was manmade. And it was supposed to be sealed with clay. Of course, you know, there are going, it's a huge place, you know, so there's always gonna be some, some ways in what the water gets out plus evaporation. But there may be one little spring in there someplace. But I wouldn't touch that either. But, um, so while we're working there, um, the water would flow a lot. I mean, there was a stream that was probably four feet wide and, and 10 inches deep of water flowing in all the time. 10 �Um, and I'll jump ahead to last year, I was working at a house, um, not far from there. And, um, one of my projects was to ensure that there was gonna be enough water for irrigation. And I looked at their water meter and it had a five eighth inch water meter. So I went to their association and I got permission to put in a one inch water meter because they didn't have much water running out in the yard. It was very poor water pressure and not a lot of volume. An irrigation system would've been a lot more expensive. 'cause you gotta put in more valves and more, more heads to be able to cover it. Uh, so I, I put in a one inch meter and, um, I, as I'm doing this, I'm cutting the pipes. I've had water turned off at the road, and I'm cutting the pipes and I'm measuring, I'm putting it in, and I cut the pipe and I look inside the pipe, and here it is nearly blocked with a black jello like stuff. It is. Um, I, I stuck my finger in it thinking, well what's this? <Laugh>. DD : Oh, Paul PG: Well, I take other measures. I wash my hands right away. But, um, it was, it was not a salt, it would've dissolved. It was not an organic compound. 'cause that would've, you know, rinsed away. Um, it, it was not a water soluble con, it's not a water soluble product at all. Okay. Think about PFAS. Okay. Teflon does not, you know, in any way, uh, connect with any other surface. So water is one of them. So here it is just at the meter, it slows down and this, this goo collects there. That, that's what was shutting off the water supply to the whole house, which they had a little tiny water filter. And the gentleman says, yeah, that's good enough. But that's another story. But anyway, so I I, I put the water meter in and I saved the pieces of pipe that I cut out. And I called the water authority. And the water authority that week had just changed hands. In other words, they hired somebody else to take care of the water around Lake Bella Vista because it's a closed system. PG: And the gentleman that came out, two of them had no history at all of what Lake Bella Vista was. They barely knew that it was a manmade lake. Now, when I did the condos, I was told that the wells were also going to feed the houses for a short time on the, uh, north or southeast corner of the lake, because they didn't have enough homes to afford a massive system with a wa with a water tower and, and had and water, um, wells. Which by the way, they did about 10, 12 years later. And they put it at the exact opposite place on the other side of the lake, furthest away from the condos, furthest away from what was the most likely dumping site because it was the lowest part of the lake. It was, it was a swampy area. It was called Grass Lake. I remember seeing it before it was ever excavated. And that was where they could have easily had access to it. Well, um, these two gentlemen had no idea. Well, I was, I told them that those two wells are still feeding this side of the lake. They should have been shut off 20, 25 years ago. And that's why the neighbors all around this cove were getting sick. Two people had died. And the people that live there are not very healthy. Um, low, low energy. They're going to the doctor often. Um, and they're using water from their faucets. So, uh, I told these guys, I said, you know, this has gotta stop. You gotta do something, you know, you gotta expand, you know, the water system around this side of the lake. Okay. Jump ahead a year later. And the wells are turned off. PG: Lake Bella Vista's water level now is down almost 18 inches. People can't get their boats in because in some cases it's too shallow. They can't run their jet skis because you gotta have 18 inches above the 11 �sand. Otherwise they're, you know, they burn out the, the pump. So there's all sorts of people wanting to know what's going on. Nobody's telling them. I know. Because they shut those wells off because the people on that side of the lake are finally getting water from another source. And it could be from Plainfield Township, who's been putting in a lot of water lines, although I haven't seen any construction there. It may be that they continued off to the, to the other side of the lake and used a bigger pump or dug another well, where their water tower is. But the, the creek doesn't run water into the lake anymore. So I know those wells are shut off. DD : That's a significant water difference for two wells. PG: What do you mean, sorry? DD : Like 18 inches down. And it, you think it was the two wells that got shut off? PG: Yeah. PG: That's a lot of supply. PG: Yeah. These are two eight inch wells. And there's a separate pumphouse for them. And there's, they probably run on 4-40 and they run day and night. And, uh, that's why the, uh, the service fees for like Bella Vista is something like $1,800 a year, which is probably not bad anymore. If they keep it there. But the, um, the, the new Water Authority looked into when I told them to look into it, and, you know, it took them a year before they, they recognized what the problem was. I just told an account, this goes back to my summary about that the lake has excessive amount of PFAS. DD : Has anyone tested Lake Bella Vista's water? PG: I again told EPA. They didn't. They probably did. They don't wanna let it out. Because these are million dollar homes. You know, people are gonna get really upset. A lot of lawsuits, they're gonna take, you know, EPA to court, a lot of lost time, a lot of money. So, but there, there's probably a lot of other contaminations in there too. DD : Did the, the black goo in the pipe ever get tested? PG: 12 �Uh, I gave it to the water authority, and I don't know, <laugh>, DD : Did the homeowners have anything to say? Or did they not see it? PG: Oh, they saw it. I, I showed the gentleman when I, you know, first cut it, he was home. I stuck my pinky in there and I said, look, <laugh>, DD : now we know why you didn't have water. PG: I only did it one time. I didn't do it twice. But, um, they were, they were bo both, uh, Air Force, uh, retirees. And they still make a lot of money doing related. And, uh, they told me that, well, if the Air Force didn't kill 'em, whatever's in the water is not gonna kill 'em. I, you know, I can't argue with that <laugh>. So you, but yeah. You know, they went through survival training and, you know, they had to, they had to eat crow and all sorts of fun stuff, you know, so but, um, yeah. So, so that's that whole ring of effort there. PG: And I, well, I did talk to an account and kind of the subject came up about the lake being low. And I told her about the wells being down and why. And she says, you mean the lake is contaminated? And I said, I wouldn't doubt it. I don't know if it's been tested, but I highly would <laugh> imagine that it has, because there's so many people and there's so much liability. And she got a little upset with me that I would suggest that Lake Bella Vista is toxic. I didn't quite say that. She asked me, is it contaminated? And I said, likely. That was just, you know, gotta be so careful. PG: Okay. Next effort. Uh, let's see. Oh yeah, I told you a certain, I won't name it, very prominent, um, engineering firm on East Beltline. I can say that much. Um, took my soil samples and threw them away. And at the same time I had insight that was, it was one of their employees that, that told me later that they were told by Wolverine. They didn't want, they weren't supposed to test anything from Rockford. So that's firsthand. PG: Uh, let's see. Hey, we're onto the second page. Almost done. Um, Lynn, when Lynn McIntosh first met up with me, she was riding her bike. She saw me out and she wanted to stop and, you know, say something about the landscape. And then she identified herself and, uh, she wanted me to try to have, you know, some understanding of where the contamination was. And that's when I told her about, you know, trees being disformed. So I, I said, well, just, I'll show you something. I said, so we walked out, we walked to the trail, and if you look to the east, you'll find nothing but disfigured trees. Soft wooded trees. A lot of 'em have fallen over recently. And the brush is gonna be there forever. 'cause they can't get a, a heavy truck on there with a chipper <laugh>, one thing only put one inch of asphalt out there. They shouldn't have done that. So, <laugh>. But you look to the, you look to the east, and the trees are 13 �gorgeous. They're absolutely beautiful because the creek stopped the buckboard and the little truck from going that way. And the, the, the creek wandered all the way up to the north. So this was the dividing line between here and 12 mile DD : Your house. PG: Yeah, so the property on my, on my property line is very contaminated. I don't do much of there. On the other side, it's not. DD : And the, the, um, the trail runs behind your house, right? PG: Yes. Correct. Runs parallel to the back property line. Yeah. So I, I showed Lynn that, and she, she got pretty excited about the fact that that was so obvious. DD : The cont the, the damaged trees are to the west or the east PG: To the, to the east. DD : To the east, yeah. And then west of it is...? PG: Yeah. From here to 12 mile is the worst. And, uh, it's a big difference. Um, and again, told the EPA nothing <laugh> one of the other sites. Should I stop saying that? <laugh> uh, let's see. See, I told you about the baseball pond and has the signs up. Uh, okay. I can, I can summarize this. Um, I, I own a, uh, tfel fry pan. Teflon. And I would never give that up. You'd have to prime my dead hand off of it before I'd give it up. <laugh>. I make breakfast every morning. And if I'm gonna clean the fry pan for, for more than 30 seconds, that's years off of my life cleaning a fry pan. So, okay. PFAS standing in the kitchen cleaning a fry pan, <laugh>. So, you know, the point is, um, there's toxins everywhere. And Wolverine got to the point where, where they knew that there was going to be more PFAS, there was going to be more lead, there was going to be more toxins. And there, there still is. I mean, there are a lot of things that we take for granted, like dish soap. How do we know that dish soap doesn't build up and then have effects on our environment and us, you know, nobody wants to know that. And if it does, if there's a, no one's gonna afford the testing for that because somebody's gonna be in very deep trouble <laugh>. So, um, yeah, nobody wants to know it's the norm. And without really knowing what is the norm, there's no absolutes, there's no, there's no guidelines, there's no baseline, there's, there's nothing. We all live in an industrial area that always has and always will be contaminated until, you know, you get up to, uh, probably Manistee, you know, you gotta go further north <laugh>, it's just, Ludington maybe. There's probably not a lot of industrial, uh, environments there. 14 �PG: They, there, there's a river. So there probably was some, at some point, whenever there's a river, there's gotta be some, some industry that decided they're going to make something and dump their waste into it. But further north, you go the further off of 94, you get goes east west, and so then you're out of the corridor. So shipping becomes a problem. So as global warming occurs and everybody goes north, hey, it'll probably be a better lifestyle. <laugh> who knows but, uh, yeah, Rockford, Rockford is toxic by design. It's, it's always gonna be that way. Uh, Wolverine did probably the most damage. And, uh, the, uh, the EPA did this huge cleanup, right where Wolverine was, where, where the tanning plant was, but they neglected to do the river. Now there's a dam immediately there. So lead chromium, zinc, they're very heavy. They're heavy elements. PG: They settle in the lowest spots. So the opposite side of that dam is probably one of the most contaminated areas. Someday that dam isn't gonna be there, it's gonna break, and all that stuff is gonna float down river. It is now, because it's being agitated all the time. A lot of it, you know, still comes around, but there's, that needed to be cleaned up. I mentioned that. Nothing happened. You know, they, they did the land, they, they actually trenched and dug and did a fine job. Uh, they did a fine job on House Street too. An enormous project. Took them four years. And I, it was, it was very similar to the, the landfill on East Beltline. They, they took out all the vegetation. And Lynn, you know, said to us that, that all had to go to Byron Center's landfill because it was toxic. PG: Now the trees are toxic. I didn't know that. Now that means all this vegetation along here is also toxic. You know, if you're, you're sitting there with a chainsaw and you're cutting up a dead tree that was on the railroad's property, and you're getting this dust from this, and Yeah. You, you shouldn't be there. No one should even be on the trail. It, it should have been fenced off and forgot about it. Oh. There's portions, portions of the trail further on the, the Mesquite Trail that go to Muskegon. They, they did that 'cause of contamination from, um, farm, uh, concerns for, um, factory farm for cattle. That they can't clean it up. And it's, it's got a lot of heavy metals in it. And so they just blocked off the trail indefinitely. DD : I can't imagine that happening for the White Pine. It's such a big thing. PG: Yeah. They should have signs up. You know, stay on the trail. Don't let your dog wander away. Stay off of this. And if it's dusty, if it's hot, if it's dry, don't go there. <laugh>. That's not gonna happen. You gotta have signs that show that, you know, people falling over on, on the ground around <laugh>. But, uh, so, you know, toxins are everywhere. And here's my point, the last thing. People are complacent, and they have to be, they have to be, otherwise they would panic. They'd go crazy thinking about all the things they have to be concerned about. And if life expectancy doesn't get beyond, you know, 75 or whatever it is, 78 now, then I guess that's okay. Um, you can't expect anymore if you're going to expect a Teflon coated fry pan <laugh>. And, you know, I, I gained three years of my life with that. So what, what I, you know, <laugh>, you know, I don't wanna stand by the sink that long. You know, there, there's just things you have to have to give up. And so I'm, you know, I, I don't want to burst your bubble or anybody else's, but we all live with a lot of toxins and they're not gonna go away. And, uh, if in fact, in the time, in the future that there is a way to clean this stuff up easily, marvelous. But there's gonna be side effects to 15 �that too. Probably cost, if anything, but um. Even in the cooling towers and the smoke stacks for what, what our power plants, they spray them down with PFAS on an every other week basis to keep the, the byproducts from accumulating so they all fall to the bottom. PG: And of course it all goes up in the air. There was a study done back early 2000s that from, Port Sheldon Power Plant, which is 46 miles away from us, their stacks, if you take a, a 60 degree angle out of those stacks to the west, that the incident of breast cancer is quadrupled for the next 30 miles. So we're just to the east of that. But you can imagine, you know, they're burning coal. Um, they were supposed to shut down and Trump said, no, don't shut down. Now they're going, I don't know, a couple more years. That makes some real good sense. PG: But, you know, again, this information, it, it either gets forgotten or it's not to be public. It's, it's to be, not to frighten anybody, let's just imagine what healthcare costs would be. What, you know, you wanna, you want a rider in your healthcare plan that says if you, if you are, you know, deemed to be too toxic to burn your body, <laugh>, they have to ship you over to Byron Center's landfill where, where everything else is toxic already. You know, because it, it's just a matter of, uh, there's no absolutes, there's no understanding it, there's nothing more than just be aware of it and do what you can to safeguard yourself. I eat chicken bones, a lot of chicken boats, <laugh> not, not the shafts, but the ends of the bones. I get a source of calcium that replaces the calcium that I, that I use every day. That's a whole other story, which I, I know you don't want to hear <laugh>, my kids don't ever wanna hear it either. <laugh>, I got one of them, one outta the four that's finally eating. No two, got two that are now eating their chicken bones. Sometimes <laugh>. DD : Oh my goodness. PG: So that, that would be the premise of how I feel. Yeah. And it's not easy. Yeah. DD : I'm, I guess it's striking me listening to all these different stories that your line of work has really put you in a position to see things in a way that most people don't get to see. You know, you're seeing both the kind of work you do, but also that you, you know, are working at all these different places in the area, PG: Black goo in someone's plumbing. Yeah. That's. DD : Like, you're just, you, your perspective is, is really like, you have a lot of data points in a lot of ways. So I think that's just, um, that's just not a perspective that, you know, most people, it's like, it's, it's me, it's here, it's in my neighborhood, or it's my thing. And you have all these different kind of reference points, which is very interesting. 16 �PG: I'm a very, um, empathetic and very, uh, observant person. And I'll, you know, toot my own in that way. But, um, so I, maybe that's why I, I see all these things. I don't know. I don't know if other people do and then they just don't, you know, take a, a moment to think about it. But, um, DD : Do you have concerns about, um, like exposure through your work? I mean, if you're, if you're digging in soil or you know, you're doing all these projects, um, do you have concerns for yourself? PG: I have for the last 45 years, applied some very horrific pesticides. And I don't wanna sound like those people that, you know, went through the Air Force and decided that if they didn't die from that, you know, that they're not gonna die from PFAS. But, but, um, I, I take, you know, some, uh, responsibilities to know what I'm using and what its action is. I stay away from any nerve agents. There's very safe pesticides out there in the last 22 years now that, um, you can spray on yourself. They're, they're actually labeled that way. They're, they're bifens. Well, bifen is a product name, but they're, uh, pyrethrins, which are made from, uh, originally made from, uh, chrysthemum and eucalyptus extracts. Now they're made synthetically. And you can buy the, the original, which is made from those two products. PG: Or you can buy the synthetic, which is a lot less money. And it works the same, but it, it is so safe. Um, it actually can be sprayed on the surface of your skin and on your clothing if you go out camping to keep out mites to keep out, uh, ticks and fleas. Um, I don't <laugh>, I, I don't do a lot of camping, but I do a lot of spraying. And I get a lot of, you know, overspray. I think I sprayed about 69, 68 people last year, and each of these places was a hundred gallons minimally. And they don't have a single insect for a year. And, uh, they can't be happier. Um, no spiders, no anything. No ants. Ants is a big thing because if you let ants get away, you know, they can destroy your house and your trees, you know, landscape, they can undermine your concrete. I have had so many people think that their driveway is cracking up because it was poorly installed. No, it was ants, <laugh>. They, after 25 years, the ants have moved out the sand and they've created their space. I could stop talking anytime. You could tell me. Shut up. DD : <laugh>. No, but, um, so it sounds like maybe you're not concerned about PFAS exposure for yourself through work. PG: Uh, boy, or That's a good question. I, I, um, no, I guess, well, one other little story I have, when I first moved here in '78, um, when 1980 came along, I looked at, I had been looking at Rockford's water supply was the Rogue River. It was just downstream from Wolverine Worldwide. And I was, I was mentioning this to people around here, and I says, what are we, what are we drinking here? We we're getting the water, just, it's going through a, a swimming pool filter, you know, diatomaceous earth. And, you know, it's supposed to be cleaned up and it's, that's not getting, you know, the chemicals out. So I went to at the time. DD : 17 �So what was, what was, what were people's reactions as you were...? PG: Oh, they, they thought I was, no, it's fine. Of course they wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't put poison in the water. And why would anybody do that? So I went to Builder Square at the time, you're not old enough, <laugh>. It was the first big box, uh, national chain. It was owned by Kmart. And on the shelf, I looked at all their water purification systems, and they had, well, larger, no, this was the larger one, <laugh>. It had a reverse osmosis filter in it, and a sediment filter and a carbon filter. And they were big filters, and this thing was big. And it took up the entire space underneath my cabinet in the kitchen. And, uh, I brought it home, cost a thousand dollars in 1980. And my wife said, no. I said, yes. I said, we're not drinking that water. Now, to this day, my kids are all very healthy and sane. Knock on wood. I don't have any but <laugh>. But I, I have other neighbors who they, you know, they don't have a filtration system, and they have health issues. They have fatigue issues. They have, um, poor reflex to, you know, food items. They get allergies, they get, uh, um, what's it, um, <laugh>, I said it earlier. But, but they have other concerns that, that are easily cured. You have to create, create for yourself an environment of your body that can withstand that. And your skin is your most important organ and it's the largest one, and you better make sure it stays perfect. I don't have any cracking. I don't have any soreness. And as of, you know, last year I calculated the amount of, you saw the trailer out front with the firewood in it. Okay. I've been doing that for 37 years, and sometimes many earliest years, I'd handle that amount of wood six times before it was burned. Now I got it down to like three, but I did the calculating over 37 years, and I have moved 1 million ton of wood personally. DD : Wow. PG: Yeah. DD : Wow. And, and it's, can I ask, how old are you? PG: 71. DD : 71. And it's, and you credit chicken bones. PG: What was that? DD : You give the credit to the chicken bones. PG: 18 �Well and we also eat, uh, products that are mostly organic. Or if they're not organic, they are no pesticides, hormones or antibiotics. And I go outta the way to get it. Um, we, we haven't gone out to eat in <laugh>, I don't remember, it's probably five plus years. Maybe we've gone out once or twice in there. But I don't trust, uh, food in a restaurant because they're always trying to make a profit. They're gonna give you whatever they can that's gonna make them money. And that's not gonna be the healthiest stuff. But we do eat Qdoba once in awhile we like that, but we don't eat burgers out anywhere. We eat organic ground beef. I, I buy salmon from Alaska. Um, which I still have. I have enough right now. But yeah, I eat fish two or three days a week. And, uh, so that's my efforts to get away from the contaminants. Yeah. Um, there's probably another three dozen of 'em. You don't want to hear my DD : No. But it does make, so I, you know, you've got the filter are on your street. Are you, are you on city water here? PG: Yes. Yes. And I just bought a new filter because the other one I couldn't get parts for and it was starting to leak. And the other one I got now is really nice. The first one I had, this is, it was a water pic, and it was one of the earlier, um, reverse osmosis, and it took 11 gallons of water to make one gallon of filtered water. So my water bills were always kind of high. Yeah. Plus I, you know, irrigate and, but, um, I cut my pipes here and I'm looking in the pipes. There is phosphorus, which is what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be a coating. It's supposed to be white. So I know that there's no buildup of that much. PFAS. The, there's a pamphlet that comes out every year, and it's always suggesting that the, now the PFAS doesn't exist. PG: Well, it does, but their wells are well away from, from Wolverine. There's three eight inch wells that are water, our water source. And that has been in service now for, oh, since 06, 07. But I did hear through the gentleman who I mentioned earlier, who's the engineer. I asked him, I think the last couple days, no days, not months. Um, how's the water doing? And he says the aquifer is half empty, so there's gonna be a time when we're probably gonna have to switch. And the only other source of water is Lake Michigan, which was an option for Rockford. But the previous manager decided he was gonna do the well thing and then do, um, Wolverine or have, uh, the water sewer system. Oh, yeah. There's another caveat to that. <laugh>. This, this is, this is fun. Um, we were told by the city manager that we were going to have, um, the water sewer North Kent water sewer authority paid for by Wolverine. OK. And the sewer line, Wolverine was gonna pay for it all the new sewer line and the, the sewer cleaning facility. And, um, I dunno if they were gonna throw in the new wells there or not, but it was going to cost Wolverine, uh, over 20 years, millions of dollars a year to be able to afford to do that. Well, um, at the time they announced that, uh, about two and a half years went by, and then our city manager said, oops, Wolverine's no longer gonna pay for this, so everybody in Rockford's gonna have to pay for it. So my water bill now has an additional charge of $45 every billing period, which is two months. Um, and that's gonna go on 40 years <laugh>. But at the time, they, that Wolverine had announced that they were going to pay for it. They had already bought the permits to build in Big Rapids and move their facility there for tanning hides. So they weren't going to be using the sewer, they weren't gonna be using the, the sewage treatment plant. That was just our city manager wanting them to announce that. So the people in Rockford will all get all happy and excited and that he was doing a fine job and Wolverine is being so nice, <laugh>, but it was all planned. It was all planned. Two and a half years later, he said, oops, sorry. Uh, everybody's gonna have to be charged now. 19 �PG: <laugh>, It's corruption everywhere. You, you just, it's like it toxic, toxic substances. And then there's toxic people, there's toxic events, and then yeah. Everybody wants to have some sort of power and control, and they, they want to see if they can get away with it. Um, that's unfortunate. But it's, yeah. To, to preserve yourself, you have to know the facts. You have to feel that you are capable of making decisions, which also is, I'm still in Rockford and I know why the water system is the way it is, that I know that there's contaminants everywhere. And, um, and they're not just PFAS. Um, DD : So you sort of maybe hinted at this, um, but what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination kind of moving forward from here, if any? PG: Right in my neighborhood? DD : Locally or broader. PG: I, I guess I see it as being still being used. Um, there is not enough regulation on where and how it goes after it's been used. And if it can be contained at all. I don't, you know, the, the whole effort to give us a limit on how much PFAS can be in our water or any other sources around us is just a cover up. There's not, it's not ever going to be controlled. There's not ever gonna be enough testing. Um, there's not gonna be enough ways to try to change that substance into something that is not toxic. You know, the research to do that, I'm sure there is some, probably the makers of Teflon have to come up with something, or they have to have a, you know, a laboratory someplace, you know, that looks like they're trying. People are greedy. They're gonna keep being greedy and eat your chicken bones <laugh>. That's all DD : <laugh>. PG: Oh, it's, it's, I don't know. I, I find that, uh, I've been very fortunate and my kids are all very healthy. And I, I do know that in the past, some of my relatives have probably passed because of alcoholism before anything else, or they, they were not recognized as being, um, gay. So, you know, they committed suicide. So those are concerns too. Mentally. And, uh, I don't know. It, it's a, it's a crazy mixed bag of everything around us and probably PFAS may not be the worst. DD : I should ask you, before we wrap up, if there is anything that you'd like to add that we haven't touched on, or anything that you want to go back to, to say more about? PG: 20 �I, I have to give Lynn McIntosh enormous amount of credit. Wow, she is just one great woman, <laugh>. Yeah. If it weren't for her, I don't know where this would've gone. You know, I mean, she used me for information, but she put it all together. She presented it, she went to all the council meetings. She went to fight, you know, for some sort of understanding. And, uh, yeah. That's great. Yeah, there's been a couple of other people, I, I don't know them personally. I was part of the CCRR group and, you know, it's still kind of casually am. Um, Lynn kind of keeps me in tow, but, um, I've been so busy, <laugh>. But, uh, yeah, I, I really do have to give her probably 99% of the credit. Yeah. PG: And, uh, for me, it's just been, just been in the wrong place, or the right place at the right time, wrong time, whatever, you know, people open up, I see things that are not normal. I recognize that there's, uh, extenuating circumstances that should be looked into and never are. And I had my chance to talk to the EPA. Over an hour and a half, three very nice people that sat across the conference table. And I told 'em what I knew and how many ways they could check and test. Um, they didn't get back with me. Of course, <laugh>, there was never, never any liaison. DD : When did you meet with the EPA for that? When did, when was that? PG: Uh, four years ago. DD : Oh, so somewhat recently. PG: Yeah. Yeah. And they were just doing a, a fishing to find out who knew and how much, and to know if they had to try try to find out a way to be, uh, calming people down. Yeah. I've tried in so many ways to not be hysterical, not be playing, you know, commenting, you know, commenting, commenting to people that, you know, this is not good. There have been people on my street though, that I have told 'em not to let their kids play in the sandboxes. Uh, just, just abandoned them. And kids that had, you know, parents that had kids that were, uh, young toddlers and yeah. There have been incidences of, of childhood cancer here that, that really are out, out of the line. I mean, way outta line. I have warned people, you know, to, you know, if they have a, a daycare in their house. Uh, the, um, the development right to the north of me is also where, well, that's where the, the field was that the, you know, Mr. Giles' great-great grandfather had been, well, great-grandfather had been dumping or allowing Wolverine to dump. So they have a, a holding area, <laugh>, little retention pond that, that's built up like a up. And <laugh>, there's an overflow that goes down, Jericho. PG: Oh, yeah. There is one other story I should tell you anyway, that, that water goes into a, a storm drain that by all regulations, all ordinances, state, federal should have gone into a retention pond. And it had to be a a hundred feet away from the, from the bank of a water source. Which was be the Rogue River. Well, they, they ran that line, uh, down the new home. Here is his driveway underneath the driveway, and they emptied it out 15 feet from the Rogue River without it being in a retention pond. <laugh>. Why? I mean, they did, they, they just bypassed all of the regulations. So, and he goes, oh, here's 21 �something. And geez, I forgot to tell you, I dunno why I didn't write this one down. When I first moved here in, uh, '78, um, it was in March, and I noticed there was these two guys that were dressed in very dirty coveralls, uh, and driving a pickup truck that was all rusted out with a winch on the back, cable winch, and a motor that ran the winch. And they would, between the sewer manhole covers of the old sewer line which runs, you know, back that way. Um, they would send down a fish line and then pull back a, a stainless steel bucket the size of the sewer line on the power winch. They would do this continuously. Every 200 feet is a manhole cover that goes from here to Comstock Park <laugh>. And they would drag the bucket, pick it up, and dump it on the ground right next to the manhole. PG: You can imagine how contaminated that is. Again, I told the EPA, but I did tell million dollar homes across the river here. There's a development called, uh, River Bluff, I think it is. And, um, there's, there's two houses with a manhole cover on their property line, because the sewer line goes underneath that. And I told them, please don't let anybody near that. Don't, don't even touch it. Don't mow it, don't do anything. Just let it grow wild. And they don't, they manicure it and it's lot, a lot of dead <laugh>, but every 200 feet is probably the most contaminated surface in Rockford that you could have that runs right through those million dollar homes and all the way, all the way to Comack Park. Um, the EPA, nothing. DD : So you said you noticed them doing this back when you first moved here? Yes. Is this a practice they're still doing? Or they don't do it anymore? PG: No, they don't do it anymore. Um, they still use the old sewer line like we talked, and it's probably rusted through in so many ways 'cause of the acid that it's just leaking it out and it doesn't have to be dragged anymore <laugh>. So it, it just seeps into the ground. And you can imagine how that's going to affect the aquifer in 30 to 50 years from now. Um, especially. Right you know, right near the Rogue River, we're talking about surface water and we're, we're talking these manhole covers are just on either side of the Rogue River. And that's where they've been dumped. And, you know, every time it rains, a lot of that still finds its way into the river. DD : Oh yeah, for sure. PG: Yeah. I did, I did have a gentleman who lived across the street from me and his dad bought a piece of property and had owned it on the end of Rio Rogue, which was a dead end road, and it's beautiful little site right on the river. And, um, I remember talking to him and I told him, I says, you know, this could be contaminated. That sewer line runs, you know, right alongside your property. I told him what I knew. He sold it in a couple months, got rid of it. He didn't want any part of it. DD : Hmm. I wonder now that the, since the tannery closed, um, how that affects, you know, they're, they're not discharging in the same way that they used to 22 �PG: In Big Rapids they are <laugh>. DD : They have the boot making factory up there, don't they? PG: Yeah. They have asphalt lined retaining pods, retention pods DD : In Big Rapids? PG: Yeah. They have to, they have to pump it out and where they run it to, I don't know. Um, that would be a good story for MLive to look into <laugh> DD : Because, Yeah, go ahead. PG: It probably, they probably dump it somewhere around Big Rapids. So maybe on people's property that is abandoned, maybe probably the same scenario that they did here. They're just doing it up there now. It'd be impractical to haul it and it doesn't evaporate when it gets down to a, a certain level, it just becomes sludge and it doesn't evaporate after that very much. I don't know. Unless they have a lot of retention ponds and as it 'cause it rains, it, it becomes a liquid again. I don't know. Leather. Leatherette. It's a good idea. <laugh> the fake stuff. Actually that is still leather. It's a very thin coat of leather on top of a polyester. leatherette. It looks like leather. DD : Well, Paul, thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories today. PG: Thank you for listening. I think I got 'em all out too. It's that last one I totally forgot about the bucket. That was a good thing. That was when I first moved here, I saw that and thought to myself, why? This is weird. What are they doing, <laugh> DD : Yeah. And just cleaning the pipe PG: Cleaning the pipe. And they're dumping it. Sewage. I mean, if it's just sewage, it's bad enough. But it was from Wolverine and all the heaviest metals you could possibly imagine. Yeah. They didn't go down the pipe. There's not enough fall, not enough, you know, circulating. So they had to scoop 'em up. <laugh>. 23 �DD : That's wild. Well, thank you. PG: No, thank you. Oh gosh. <laugh>. Yes. I'm free <laugh>. 24 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0042 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Golembiewski, Paul Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2025-11-06 Title A name given to the resource Paul Golembiewski, 2025 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Rockford resident and horticulturist Paul Golembiewski reflects on decades of living and working near the former Wolverine Worldwide tannery, sharing detailed observations of chemical dumping, environmental damage, and community health concerns tied to PFAS contamination. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c68a5bafda65f8488aece6665427a998.jpg 4eb331924b4d8b51aa9d557a34609113 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000209 Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State Colleges sign Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Golland, Dave Description An account of the resource Sign at main Campus Drive entrance at Lake Michigan Drive to Grand Valley State Colleges (1973-1983). Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Signs (Notices) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/85b48d3dff682d578492e89d2d0ca47a.jpg d562909672f04418e92aa887cb48a18a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000279 Title A name given to the resource Marching band spelling out LAKERS on the football field Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Golland, Dave Description An account of the resource Marching band spelling out LAKERS on the football field at a GVSC v Franklin game. Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Students Football Sports Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b7883962d04b67c808a59ab07010dbca.pdf 2d33aede6c52d6f99e56bc36101cb538 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Gregorio Gómez Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 8/23/2012 Biography and Description Gregorio Gómez is known as the “G Man” at one of Chicago’s longest running underground poetry venues, “Weeds,” at 1515 North Dayton Street. Opened in 1964, “Weeds” still serves the Lincoln Park neighborhood; the building has existed there since 1928. Today “Weeds” is known as “the neighborhood bar without a neighborhood.” In the 1980s, prior to the Harold Washington campaign, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez organized a reorganizing event at “Weeds.” It was a small party reunion and the place was packed. The purpose was to remember the Young Lords’ work and the Puerto Ricans who were displaced from Lincoln Park. Mr. Jiménez was assisted by Iris (Martha) Ramos, who, before the Young Lords were political, was one of three different presidents of the Young Lordettes. Ms. Ramos had previously been married to Benny Pérez, one of the original Young Lords club founders, who also turned political when the Young Lords became a human rights movement on September 23, 1968. She was also the sister of Manuel Ramos who was a Young Lord killed by off duty policeman James Lamb on May 3, 1969. Mr. Gómez emigrated from Vera Cruz, Mexico to Chicago in 1963. And he has been in the poetry community for nearly three decades. He has been the Managing Director of the Latino Chicago Theatre Company, which has been in the forefront of theatre and arts in Wicker Park. Mr. Gómez’s work has been published and recorded in numerous venues, including Stray Bullets: A Celebration of Chicago Saloon Poetry (1991) and Poetry for Peace Anthology, published by the Peace Museum of Chicago. In �1986, White Panther Party Minister of Information, Bob “Righteous” Rudnick, now deceased, approached the owner of “Weeds,” Sergio Mayora, about staging “Poetry Slams.”. Soon after that Mr. Gómez started to MC. Some of the patrons are a mix of newcomers and old timers, a few white pacifists and anarchists, some revolutionaries, primarily Blacks and Latinos. Early poets who presented their work at “Weeds” includes Chris “Man Defender” Chandler, “Sultry” Sue McDonald, and Susie “Mellow” Greenspan. Poet and Young Lord Alfredo Matias is a regular at “Weeds,” along with Sergio Mayora who always recites his two poems, and Mr. Gómez himself. As Mr. Gómez reiterates, “I stand for hundreds of Poets who will never be famous.” �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Okay Gregorio, if you can give me your name, your date of birth, and where you were born? GREGORIO GOMEZ: Okay. My name is Gregorio Gómez, I was born in Tierra Blanca, Veracruz in the year of 1951 October 23rd. JJ: Where’s Tierra Blanca, Veracruz where is that? GG: (laughs) JJ: Veracruz is on the east coast, right? GG: Yes, on the east coast. We are, you know, several miles from Cuba, Puerto Rico. Veracruz, in contrast to the rest of Mexico, is very Caribbean. Guayaberas, arroz blanco, frijol negro, [zapateado en estilo?], [España?] a little bit ’cause of, you know, Veracruz is a state where the conquest of [00:01:00] Mexico came in. The Spañoles arrived in Veracruz, and from there they went into Tenochtitlan. But it’s very Caribbean, I mean, I think that we have, at least in my view, more of our connection to the Caribbean side of the Gulf of Mexico and all of that than more towards the west coast in regards to culture. We fit more in the Caribbean area. From there, we moved -- my father was a railroad man and he travelled a lot. You know, he started laying rail, he moved on from layin’ rail to, well, used to call them (Spanish) [00:01:56] which is those big blocks of wood [00:02:00] where the rails lay down. What do they call ’em? I don’t even know what they call ’em here. But he travelled, and throughout his travels -- of course everybody was in those days, the late ’40s, you know, that were coming the 1 �Bracero Program and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: What is the Bracero Program (inaudible)? GG: The Bracero Program, bracero comes from the word brazo, labor, where the United States started recruiting Mexican labor because of the United States was at war. And so all of the manpower or power of the United States, male manpower of the United States, was in Europe and in other what they call Europe, you know, the theaters of war. And so they started recruiting Mexicans, even though there’s already a lot of Mexicans here. You know, the whole question of the southwest of California and all of that [00:03:00] from the Mexican-American War and the theft of the southwest. They still were bringing in labor promising that white picket fence and the nice little white cottage somewhere and that kind of stuff, and instead they get -- JJ: This was in the mid-’40s? GG: Yeah, the late ’40s. JJ: Late ’40s, okay. GG: And so he crossed undocumented and got sent back, and then he crossed again, but the second time he crossed -- (Spanish) [00:03:37] (break in audio) JJ: Okay, so we were talkin’ about the Bracero Program. GG: Well, you know, the Bracero Program was a big thing in the ’40s to bring Mexican labor in. So my father tried to get into that and he was able to do that. But then, somewhere down the line, he was [00:04:00] sent back, then he came back again. Typical thing, came back, got deported, and finally -- 2 �JJ: So’s he was comin’ without any papers? GG: Yeah, I think the second time he came without any papers and so he gets deported. And finally, through whatever finagling, negotiating he did it -- I do remember one quick story that he had a gold watch that he used in the railroad that was an heirloom to him, and that he sold that watch in order to make it back to the US, but this time he wanted to come back documented. So he finally did. And that was the beginning of his thought about bringing the rest of the family to [00:05:00] the United States. JJ: And he came straight to Chicago or...? GG: He came straight to Chicago -- he did a little stuff here and there, but there was an uncle, my mother’s younger brother, was already here in Chicago. So he says, “Come on down.” And so he ended up Chicago, which I’m kinda glad that he did, in a sense, ’cause Chicago provided many different opportunities for us as his children versus being in the southwest where the mixture of mexicano, Chicano that was left over from the 1848 Mexican-American War. There’s a whole different dynamic, you know, of Chicano, mexicano from the Southwest. And here, even though we’re right in Chicago, [and there was a?] tremendous amount of discrimination it was -- JJ: And now what neighborhood were you -- GG: We ended up in the far South Side neighborhood called Roseland, [00:06:00] working class community. JJ: About what street? GG: Well, our first address was 11940 South Parnell, that was the first place that we 3 �lived in. The second one was 100 -JJ: Those are the big houses that was (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- GG: (laughs) No these was the -- I’ll get to that but we were living in the first floor of this two-flat. My sisters were living in the -- they had the bed, was in the dining room. Myself and my brothers were in one room in bunkbeds that my father built. And so we were tight. And it was (inaudible) after that, later on. And it was from Veracruz we -- at that time, the only place to get your documents was Monterrey, Nuevo León, which is a northern part of Mexico. [00:07:00] For me, I believe that was part of the preparation of being uprooted and learning how to deal with new places. When we arrived in -- JJ: Wait, with what? GG: With new places. JJ: New places, new places. GG: ’Cause when we arrived in Monterrey, we were foreigners. We spoke funny, we had an accent de Veracruz, we had a different, you know, sonsonete, a different way of talking and the beautiful Monterrey del Norteños. Yeah, they were just -they listened to different music and so that was the first time that -- JJ: So what is your music? I mean what did you (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: Well, I mean -- JJ: Veracruz. GG: -- there’s sonnets in Veracruz. There’s sonnets (Spanish) [00:07:49] What else? A lot of sonnets -- you know, marimba, we use a lot of marimba, arpa. And in Monterrey, [00:08:00] it’s what’s now called banda music, polka. (sings) You 4 �know, that kind of stuff which is very popular even here in Chicago. It’s very, very popular. And these big -- I mean, it’s okay. It’s danceable. But it’s a northern part of Mexico now and it’s, again, a totally different place. We came from a rural small town, very homey, Tierra Blanca to an industrial, urban, bustling huge metropolis like Monterrey. JJ: And how old were you then? GG: I was about seven, eight years old. JJ: And I didn’t get your father’s name or mother’s -- GG: [Hipólito?] Gómez is my father’s name. My mother’s name is [Tomasita?] Gómez. [00:09:00] I’m gonna get to that too, that’s an interesting connection with her. And so we end up in Monterrey. Being in Monterrey -- we had a lot of family, but from my mother’s side. Unfortunately, on my father’s side, all of his family disappeared during the various revolutions in Mexico. And I’m not gonna give you details on that ’cause he never really was fond of talkin’ about that. So he ended up with his mother and grandfather, who was killed later on. And he hated the caciques?] with rancheros, the landowners, ’cause he lived in one of those and, you know, those are the style of fiefdom where you’re a serf. JJ: These are, like, haciendas? [00:10:00] GG: (inaudible) the haciendas and they gave you a plot of land and you work for the hacienda, but then you come home and then you toil your own piece of land. But then you have to give part of your fruits to the hacienda as part of the payment, the rent. But then you’d have to buy the seed from the ranchero. I mean, it’s a racket, you know. The railroads used to do that here in the United States, where 5 �-- or the miners as well, where the mine owned the store, you know, there’s a famous song that deals with that. Tennessee Ernie Ford used to sing it, “16 tons and what do you get? One day older and deeper in debt.” You know, that kind of thing. And so he always hated that, so that’s when he finally’d make his move to join the railroad, to get away from that lifestyle. He didn’t know how to read [00:11:00] or write until he was 19 years old when his grandfather or somebody started teaching him. And he was always pushing ahead to get away from that kind of Mexican oppression. You know, government oppression, right. Capital oppression. JJ: So you call that Mexican oppression? GG: There’s Mexican oppression man. It’s goin’ on, now, you know. And so he -well, in Mexico, the oppression is the rich versus the poor, not necessarily color. The rich is always screwing the poor no matter what. And so he’s always tryin’ to get away from that. Comin’ to the United States was his dream come true. You know, that was his golden apple. That was his way of believing that he arrived at the promised land, but [00:12:00] he had to bring us all in order for him to be -- JJ: So when you say he brought us all, what are your siblings? GG: I have five brothers and two sisters. JJ: And can you give me their names or...? GG: Okay. My older sister is [Carmen Senco?], she’s the oldest, second oldest is [Marisela Ruben?], my older brother [Abram Gómez], myself, and then my younger brother [Guillermo?], and then [José Louise?], and [Raul?]. And Raul is born here, though and he was the last one of the family of eight. But so he 6 �brings us to Monterrey, you know, there’s where we went to to get the documentation. We lived there for six years. That was a process of time to get your documents and particularly for a large family. And then, of course, it’s all that money you have to be dishing out. As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago I found some documents [00:13:00] that my father had saved. Letters, written by hand, from people giving my dad, my pops, references and that he was a good man, that he was a hard worker, very trustworthy, and things like that, that he was sending to Monterrey as proof that he was working and proof of character and, you know, those kinds of things that they’re still very valid today. I mean, what’s the first things that someone wants to know about you? Are you good person? Are you employed? You know, do you have personal good character? Those kinds of things. So but we lived in Monterrey, and in Monterrey I learned that life was not gonna be easy. JJ: Okay, so what was Monterrey like? GG: Monterrey was a rough, rough -- we lived in a very rough neighborhood. It looked middle class, it looked -- or, actually it was kinda lower-middle class if you can call it. Again, another [00:14:00] working-class neighborhood, but surrounded by the rest of the world, you know, life. People who were living from day to day, that kinda thing. I ended up at a school called [Meliton de Arrel?]. It was an all-boy school. It was an all-grade school from first grade to high school and it was a school that was a state school, but it was managed by the Catholic Church. There’s another form of repression right there. So at this boy’s school, there was a lot of tension. 7 �JJ: The Catholic Church was a form of repression? Do you think that? GG: Haven’t you noticed? (laughter) Oh, you want me to answer. Right? No, it was [00:15:00] because they needed to, you know -- the student population came from the lower parts of society’s neighborhood. Very rough kids, you know, fights would break out, and I’m very light, I’m very light. So kids would come up to me and they’d look at me like, “Hey, pinche güero, man.” You know, “Where you from?” That kind of stuff. And I got beat up a couple of times, and finally I started to -- I had to fight back. And that also seems to me that it was a form of training for my arrival in the United States, my arrival in Chicago. The years in Monterrey, though, it was really wonderful. JJ: But they’re callin’ you güero because, could it be, that you were from Monter-from Veracruz? GG: From Veracruz? No, they were [00:16:00] callin’ me güero ’cause I was güero [00:16:01] JJ: Just ’cause you were -- GG: Yeah, I was just -- I mean that -- JJ: And they just didn’t like -- GG: Well, you know -- JJ: -- Americano (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: They didn’t think I was a gringo, but they just -- I was so, so blatantly white, you know. Blondish hair, my eyebrows were yellowish, I was white, white, white. Even though I come from Veracruz where it’s a very tropical region, but then it has to do with my mother’s background. Her father was Spanish, an español, 8 �you know, so she has very light skin, blue eyes, where my father on the other side, he’s a Huichol out of Jalisco. And he’s a dark-skinned man -JJ: A Huichol? GG: It’s a tribu. It’s an Indian nation that’s out of Jalisco. He was born in a little [00:17:00] town called Ayo el Chico and that area was all Huichols at one time -and other tribes, of course, but he was and, you know, my grandmother was a Huichol. And I have brothers who are brown. (laughs) You know, you look at them and you look me, it’s like, “How the hell you guys, you know, same family?” But, like, no that’s typical, I think, too of many families, including in the boricua brothers and sisters. I’ve some that are [prietos, prietos?] and on the other side they’re, you know, lighter skin. As a matter of fact, I met a person from Guatemala -- no, no Ecuador? One of the two, whose brother is very dark and whose sister is very light. But I thought that Monterrey also was a training ground. As I got older and began to be analytical of this wayward North, [00:18:00] it made me think that Monterrey was a good thing. ’Cause when we arrived in Chicago in 1963, we didn’t know any word of English. We were put in an all-white neighborhood, primarily Eastern European, and I learned racism. JJ: This was on the South Side? GG: On the South Side, Roseland. JJ: Roseland, okay. GG: Which is gonna start ser-- JJ: But what do you mean you were put there? What put you there? GG: Well, that’s where my father was living. 9 �JJ: Oh, he put you there. GG: 112 Street. Yeah, he put me there. (laughter) This is where we arrived, this is where we landed. 112 Street -- no 11920. I’ll never forget that address, right across the street from West Pullman School. And that’s ’63 in late August. Week later, we were in school, September, [00:19:00] and my name went from Gregorio Gómez to Greg Gomez. And everybody’s name, the rest of my brothers and sisters, their names was changed. So I didn’t understand a word, so the teach would go, “Hey, Greg Gomez.” I didn’t know who the hell she was talkin’ to. (laughter) I would sit there, who knows. I never responded to that name until I began to get punished for behavioral problems at West Pullman School in 1963, but I was already used to that. I went to Militum de Arrel in Monterrey. You know, West Pullman school didn’t hold a candle to that school, ’cause that was, you know, (laughter) that was a rough school. In Militum de Arrel we went from -- we had to be there at 8:30 in the morning to 4:00 in the afternoon. All day long. They [00:20:00] closed the gates. If you were late, they wouldn’t let you in. They closed the gates, and the gates would stay closed until they opened them up at four o’clock for you to go home. So this punishment here, it was not (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: Today -- was that more for security reasons or...? GG: No, it was just the way it was. Just the way it was. Well, security reasons, I’m not sure to be honest with you. But it was because of, again, the clientele that came in there. A lot of juvenile delinquencies, a lot of -- not everybody because I didn’t think I was, or maybe I was. (laughter) I just, you’d know it. You know 10 �what I mean? So those things began to balance in my head later on, but that first shock. It was a shock to arrive in Monterrey and be put in this urban [00:21:00] setting, even though I understood the language. And then, it was a bigger shock to arrive in Chicago f-- we were awakened around midnight. We were then taken to the bus stop. We packed all our stuff. I was half asleep. Everything was already packed. We were taken to the bus stop. From the bus stop, we drove all night long to Nuevo Laredo, Texas, crossed the border, and landed in a roach motel. ’Cause we had to wait for the train the next day to bring us to Chicago. I think it took two days or something like that. JJ: So you landed in a roach motel? GG: And I seriously mean a roach motel, and the roaches were about this big in Texas. You know, they smoked cigarettes down there. (laughter) [00:22:00] But that was my first cultural shock. And what made it even worse as a cultural shock was at the train station, you see the cowboys, you know, with their big cowboy boots and all of that and big sombreros, you know. And I’m talking about the white cowboys, not you know... Had these huge.... And then you see the contrast, which I thought was tremendously schizophrenic, the Blacks. Then I saw the Blacks who were -- they were like, Black, Black, Black. For some reason, to me, that was the first shock again. They were Black, and it tripped me out because I’ve seen Blacks in Veracruz, but they didn’t have the same physicality. These seem to be definitely much more [00:23:00] Afro-Black than the Mexican Black. And I’m not gonna go ahead and try to explain the difference. It was just a kid’s, you know, shocking vision from one day to the 11 �other. ’Cause from at night to the morning, I was in a different country with a whole different... And I was still not too freaked out yet ’cause there were still people who spoke Spanish in Texas, broken as it was. My mom was able to communicate. We understood a little bit. You know, we went and had huevo rancheros. And I looked at these huevos rancheros like, “What the hell is this?” It was not the huevos rancheros that I remembered from the night, from week before. And so that was one cultural shock. And then we came by train to Chicago, which was a beautiful ride too. You see all this countryside, you’re traveling. [00:24:00] And I love trains, because I used to ride trains with my old man. And in Mexico, there’s a lot of usage of trains to travel. And so I thought it was a really beautiful ride. Come to Chicago, don’t know anyone. A week later, I’m in school, Sept-- you know, right after Labor Day. And I’m sitting in a classroom full of white kids, and they’re talking gibberish. Not a word. The teacher I recall, her name was Mrs. [Hefferman?], put me in the back. She didn’t want to deal with me. I was in the back, gave me a book and I remember this, because later on, I remember that. She gave me one of them Dick and Jane, see the dog Spot run, those books. Put it in front of me, and to me, it looked like children’s book, which [00:25:00] I didn’t pay attention to in the first place. It’s a children’s book, you know. And I didn’t know what to do with it. So, I looked at it, sat there. And all day long, I went -- you know, they moved us from class to class. And now here’s a new kid, his name is Greg Gomez. Sit him down, I sit in the back, and I sat there. JJ: Now, you had gone to school in Mexico already? 12 �GG: Yeah. Yeah. JJ: How far had you gone? GG: I got to sixth grade in Mexico. JJ: And then this grade was what? GG: They put me in sixth grade again. JJ: Oh, sixth grade again. GG: And then they put me in sixth grade again. They flunked me. I came here, they put me in sixth grade. No, I was actually I was on my way to what -- (break in audio) GG: -- first year in high school in Monterrey ’cause there’s no seventh grade in Monterrey. You go from sixth grade, you graduate, and then you go to high school, which is what they call here -- [00:26:00] no, I don’t even know what the hell they call it. JJ: Middle school, I think. GG: Middle school. Yeah, that’s it. Thank you. Middle school. But over there it’s already high school. So I get here, and they put me in sixth grade, I don’t know the damn language, nobody talks to me. And the year goes by, and I get held back. So I did two -- I did three sixth grades. So I just want to begin to go, “Okay, this is fucked up, man. This is --” Again, in retrospect after analyzing, there was no support systems, of course, and I was not expecting any support systems ’cause they didn’t exist in those days. Nothing, no such things as bilingual, no such things by biculturalism, no such thing. It was just Gringolandia [00:27:00] period, which is where the country is going back to, you know. You’re 13 �not a gringo, you know, get the hell out of town. So those were the years that began to mold a political, cultural -- before it became political, it became a cultural ideology. I began to hold on to my Mexicanism. I began to hold on to things that I thought I was beginning to lose. I ended up going to night school. My pops, my sisters, my older brother, other Mexicans, took advantage of a program, English as a Second Language, at Fenger High School at night. So I-JJ: Is Fenger in Roseland? GG: Yes, in Roseland. Fenger High School is on 112th Street and Wallace, [00:28:00] and just, you know, eight blocks away from the house. And so I would tag along and go to class with them. And the teachers there taught you English, basics. But basic enough for you to be able to make that transition, therefore, English as a Second Language, which is still being taught today, you know. JJ: And what was that area like, what type of population was...? GG: The population was primarily Eastern European. Very white, if you want to call it, very European. JJ: I thought it was by 95th became a Mexican community later. GG: Well, 95th, even today, is not, you know, I mean, it was 95th Street -- If you’re talking about a Mexican community -- JJ: 95th and Commercial, around there somewhere? GG: The what? JJ: Is it 95th and Commercial? GG: Nah, you talkin’ ’bout South Chicago. JJ: Oh that’s South Chicago. 14 �GG: We can go there. That has all -- that was -- JJ: Oh, this is not South Chicago. GG: No, this is not South Chicago. South Chicago [00:29:00] is east of us. JJ: This is more like around Harvey or something or...? GG: North of Harvey. JJ: North of Harvey. GG: Roseland is the furthest most south neighborhood in Chicago as it is. It begins south of 95th Street, goes all the way down to 127th Street. It goes from Western on the West Side to Michigan Avenue on the East Side. I mean, it’s a huge neighborhood. And it was a very -- JJ: So it was mostly white. GG: It was all white, not mostly JJ: It was all white. GG: It was all white. The Mexicans that lived there prior to our arrival were white. You know, they became white. Even if they spoke with a heavy Mexican accent, they were white. You ask them what their name was and it was not [Margarita?], it was [Marguerite?]. And it wasn’t [00:30:00] José, it was Joe. There was this one guy, his name was José... He even changed his last name to an English pronunciation. JJ: So they had been well trained then? GG: Yeah. JJ: They had been -- GG: (mimics a whip crack) (laughter) 15 �JJ: In the school system, maybe. GG: Yeah. And so because they had been the -- from before me, and I took the name Greg by force ’cause I couldn’t do anything about it. I was too young to protest. But little by little, I got into playing soccer. I was very athletic, so I played soccer. So I played soccer with a Mexican team, with a Mexican community. So the Spanish that I was beginning to lose, I began to retain. And then one day, when I was about 19 [00:31:00] years old, one of my coaches says to me, he says, “Hey, (Spanish) [00:31:04].” He started reprimanding me because I was beginning to stutter my Spanish as I was stuttering the English. When I learned English, I began to stutter d--d--d--d--d--. ’Cause you know how your brain wants to make your mouth talk and say the words, but your mouth doesn’t have the facility to say it? And so I began to stutter d--d--d--d--w--w--. ’Cause I wanted to say things and I just couldn’t. Where in Spanish, I would (snaps) and then I began to lose that language too. So that was a shock again. And then I began to, “Okay, I have to retain the language. I have to retain some things.” By the time I got to high school, I changed my name again, and I promised everybody that my name was Gregorio [00:32:00] and if you don’t call me Gregorio, there was an ass-kicking coming behind it. JJ: Okay. What made you so proud of -- bring out that pride in your -- GG: What did it -- JJ: -- all of a sudden? Was it all of a sudden, or what...? GG: No, no. It built. It built. The first signs of my rebellion in regards to -- That’s why I say it was cultural. When I began to read the history that the United States has 16 �put forth in regards to the mexicano, [00:32:35] in regards to the rip-off of the Southwest via the 1848 War, in regards to how they made the mexicano look like a bandido. How they made us constantly look like some sort of lower-class nation. Poor, yeah, of course, Mexico is still poor. [00:33:00] I mean, there’s a lot of things about Mexico that’s fucked up to think. The whole droga thing, you know, the narcotraficantes, the narcogobiernos that have been established, you know, the killings in Juárez, the murders in Monterrey, the kidnappings in Mexico City, or -- I mean, there’s a lotta, like -- our government is fucked up. Okay? But that doesn’t mean that this government isn’t, and that this country hasn’t had its, you know, their Ku Klux Klans, their slavery, their lynchings in the South, all of those things. So you cannot tell me we’re a democratic country, and then throw rocks somewhere else and say, “No, we’re this.” But that’s where I began to develop a resentment towards the United States. And it was not this resentment, [00:34:00] “I hate this.” It’s a resentment of how we were being pictured. And how the other gringo -- how the little güeritos around me would turn around and look at me and say, “Well, he looks like me.” Because I look so white, “But he’s Mexican, he doesn’t speak English, and when he speaks English, he talks funny.” And so, you know, they used to call me taco bender and beaner and things like that. They learned real fast that insulting me was going to get them an ass-whipping, which I did. I beat up a lotta kids. That established me as a person not to fuck with. There was this one guy, his name was Stanley, something real -- Polish kid. They called him The Skull. His head actually looked like a skull, and he was a tough kid. So he comes messing around with 17 �me, I beat the shit out of him. So then he brings his cousin, [00:35:00] a fat kid. They called him Catman. Those are the scary names, you know, the scary nicknames (inaudible) Skull and Catman. So he wants to beat me up, too, so I beat him up. But here’s the interesting thing about those days, just real quick, then come back to the other thing. When Stanley, Skull, challenged me to the fight, he says -- and half of it I’m understanding, and the other half is being translated by this other guy who knew English a little better than I did. He said, “No kicking, no biting, no spitting, no scratching.” You know, so I’m thinkin’, “Well, what kind of fight this is gonna be?” So the first thing I did, I spit in his face, I kicked him in the shins, I drop him to the ground, and beat the hell out of him. I don’t know if you’re supposed to be proud of that or not, but I learned that [00:36:00] fighting was a way of salvation. It was a way of salvation for me because then the other white kids wouldn’t mess with me. And then tougher kids, instead of trying to fight me, well they became friends. You know, the whole the strong goes with the strong kinda thing. And then I began to learn the language at night school. And I resented other things, like the teachers I resented (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: So you started going to night school, or...? GG: I started going to night school with my pops and my sisters and my older brother. JJ: He wanted you to go to night school or...? GG: No, that’s for English as a Second Language. You know, that was, I think, by ’64. JJ: Okay, they had the program? 18 �GG: Yeah, they had the pro-- ’64, something like that. There were some enlightened teachers that somehow -- How did that program get started? I don’t know, I never studied it. But there were some people who were enlightened. They said, “Hey, you know, these people don’t know English. Well, let’s have this...” [00:37:00] And it was a government funded program. ESL was a government funded program. JJ: And you must have felt better because you were around more Latinos at that time, no? GG: Well, yeah. I mean, I was learning English with -- There were not just Mexicans, you know, there are mexicanos, there were a couple of other... I remember seeing a couple of turbans, which could have been Hindu, could have been Arabic, could have been whatever, but they had the headdress. I saw this who were white but couldn’t speak English, they could have been another, Polish, you know, Eastern European. So I would begin to look at this thing, at this eclectic group of students, mostly adults, because the classes were for adults. But being a young kid, I was able to pick up the language (snaps) fairly quickly. Within a year, I was speaking English. Within two, I was speaking it and writing it well. Within three, I was submerging myself. [00:38:00] Within four, I was beginning to look like I was a gringo, man, you know? And so there was this whole transition that happened to me as well, that I submerged myself into the hippie movement. And my hair started growing long, I started going to protest marches. JJ: Okay so, before we get there, now this -- are you still on the South Side? GG: I live in the South Side right now. Just enough -- 19 �JJ: Oh, you have never moved from there? GG: No, no, I did. I did. When I came back from college, I actually ended up moving to Logan Square, a neighborhood that I never lived in my whole life. I went from the South Side to the university in Whitewater, and when I came back, I spent a little time at my folks’ house, but I was driving all the way to Palatine, Illinois, [00:39:00] to go to work, which was a crazy drive. You know from whi-- JJ: What kind of work was it? GG: I came back working as a community organizer at a place called The Bridge Youth Services, and they put me -- my job was to organize students -- well, not students, youth and parents at a Section 8 housing, which I can get to that as well. I was going to go that way as well. Anyways, getting away from all of that - JJ: Okay, so you became, you said, like a hippie or something? You said -- GG: Yeah, I went from this kind of rough kind of character - JJ: This is before you went to the college? GG: Yeah, yeah. In high school -- JJ: What year was this? GG: This was from 1967 through 1971. JJ: Okay, so you became a (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: The thing about it is that [00:40:00] I started getting into music and the Beatles and the Stones and that kind of rock and that kind of, you know, the long hairs and things like that. And I liked that. I thought that was better than hanging out with the guys who were more -- Well, I never got into it with the jocks because 20 �they were too wide, straight, none of it. In my neighborhood, there were divisions. There was the jocks, which usually were the athletes, the baseball players, the football players, and that kind of stuff and their girlfriends, the cheerleaders, and all of that. And then there were the greasers, and the greasers were, if you remember the 1950s, those guys with the white T-shirts and the cigarette rolled up and the sleeve and the hair combed back, the Elvis Presleys, you know. And then there’s always the, like, the smart kids. They were always somewhere else. [00:41:00] And then there are those of us who are left out. We didn’t fit there, we didn’t fit here, we didn’t fit there. And little by little this group of mexicanos and gringos, we began to mix together, started hanging out at the park, drinking Boone’s Farm, listening to music. JJ: What park was that? GG: West Pullman Park on 123rd Street and Wallace. JJ: Drinking Boone’s Farm? JJ: Boone’s Farm, Ripple, Little Wild Eyes, you know it’s like that, Wild Irish Rose, smoking a little weed. You can edit that. (laughter) Nah, just -- JJ: No way. GG: You know, and just getting into this strange, excellent music. Listening to this music, sitting, just kicking back and relaxing. Not losing the toughness, but not wanting to be there anymore. I didn’t want to fight people anymore. I didn’t feel like doing that. [00:42:00] I changed my name from Greg to Gregorio. I let my hair grow long. I started being more anti-war, anti-Vietnam. My older brother, Abram, who had a wonderful job at ComEd, decided, “Before they draft me, well, 21 �I’m gonna join.” Everybody told him, “If you join, they will send you to Vietnam.” And sure enough, you know, he joined, they didn’t send him to Vietnam. They sent him to Germany. And then, who was it? I think it was Nixon, who said, “I’m pulling out 70,000 troops from Vietnam. I’m pulling them out.” He pulls them out. A week later, he sends 70,000 troops back again. But he pulls out 70,000, but he took soldiers from the Philippines, Germany. My brother calls up and says, “I’m going to Germ-- I’m going to Vietnam.” [00:43:00] And it’s just, it was a shock. So I started getting involved in that kinda stuff. I started going to marches and protests. JJ: What groups? GG: No group in particular. Just, “Hey, there’s going to be a march, you know, a peace rally march.” JJ: In that community or...? GG: In the community and then downtown, and we’ll come downtown. You know, I was not in any group as a kid, except for the group that I hang out with, which they called us the pot smokers and wine drinkers, and, you know, that. The hippies, we’re the this, that. And I liked it. It kept me from being crazy. It kept me from... well, I was not smart enough, according to the teachers, to be in the [00:44:00] right classes. And I didn’t like mechanics. So I didn’t want to be an auto mechanic. I didn’t like that. My pops, he was an excellent carpenter, but I didn’t want to be a carpenter. You know? I didn’t have an idea as to what the hell I wanted to do. I just knew that what I didn’t want to do. But I didn’t -- so I breezed through high school at d’s and c’s. It was okay with me. I didn’t give a 22 �shit. I didn’t have to study. And I would walk into a class, I would look at a test. I got a D, fine. I took another test. And then I found something interesting called architecture, drafting. My brother was a draftsman. And then I said, “What good are the draftsmen?” So I took drafting, and I liked it. But I never got into that, you know. [00:45:00] That was not my calling either. And so I just started to work, I figured I’m going to be at my father, my pops. In the summers, he would take me to work with him. He was a truck driver. He used to -- we would go to stores, empty stores, and dismantle all this stuff that was there. We’d throw ’em in a truck. We took ’em somewhere, and we got paid. I had no idea what the hell job that was. He was a truck driver, and I was his helper, and we went into places, we took it apart, and we would go home. I worked at a place called the [Goodman?] store one time, and then I graduated. My pops says, “Hey, you’re not going to do anything with your life. Why don’t you come and work with me?” Second time. JJ: Graduating from college now? GG: No, from high school. [00:46:00] This high school. Seventy-one, nowhere to go. Literally nowhere to go. I didn’t have the grades for any kind of college institution. I didn’t have the drive for a college institution. I was never encouraged by anybody in high school to be college-oriented. And I don’t remember seeing a college counselor -- I mean a high school counselor, in high school. I used to hear all these other kids, “Oh, did you see your counselor today?” “Oh, yeah. My counselor said this, and my counselor said this.” I said, “Who the hell is a counselor?” You know who I met? The vice principal. You 23 �know who he was? The disciplinarian. That’s who I met. (claps) Out the door. I got caught talking Spanish in my sophomore year [00:47:00] at Fenger. And the teacher reported me to Mr. [Kelly?], that was his name. Hated that son-of-abitch. JJ: So you got reported for talking Spanish? GG: For talking Spanish. Got 30 days suspension. JJ: For talking Spanish? GG: For talking Spanish. 30 days. Me and this other guy. JJ: Are you sure that was the only reason? I mean, not that I’m questioning that. GG: No, no. I mean -- JJ: Sometimes you might forget, but that’s your understanding? GG: No, no, no, no. (inaudible) If I was misbehaving, I’ll remember. I never got kicked out for misbehavior. ’Cause I would -- I never did. I didn’t have to misbehave. I have one goal and one goal only to please my father, my pops. Graduate from high school and get a job. Don’t -- (break in audio) GG: -- others and ass-kicking. Simple life. (laughter) It was a simple life. All I had to do was stay out of -- here was the other thing, too. [00:48:00] He says, “You get into trouble, don’t bring it home.” JJ: What was his feeling that you got suspended? GG: I never told him. He never knew. I get up in the morning, acted like I go school, instead of going to school, I would get together with a couple of friends, we would go to 103rd Street Beach, hang out all day at 103rd Street beach, you know, which 24 �is the South Side, [Kennedy Hill Park?]. It’s the furthest south part of Lake Michigan. And we would hang out there by the rocks, swimming, jumping in the water, kicking back, drinking beers, and then going home. Go home, drop your books off, change, go to work. In high school is when I started working at that Goodman store. Before -- Well no that’s a -- I don’t know if I want to get into that. It’s another crazy story about my first job. But my father once told me -- I wanted to buy these shoes that have [00:49:00] little -- they used to be known as beetle boots. It was similar to this, but they -- but they used to call it Cuban tacón, the Cuban heel. And I wanted one of those. It was 11 dollars and 50 cents. The shoes that my father bought me were 6 dollars and 50 cents. I didn’t like ’em. And he says, “You don’t like ’em? Get a job. You get a job, you can buy anything you want.” Okay. So I got a job delivering groceries for 50 cents an hour. And I made $11.50 plus taxes and bought the damn shoes. He hated it, but he knew that what I -- plus, I gave some money to the house. That was the other part of the deal. [00:50:00] “Now you’re working, you have to contribute to the house.” And so that became a routine for all of us. If we’re not working, we have to cut the grass, do the dishes, do the chores. That was our lot to living in his house and not get in trouble. He told me one day, says, “You know what? I know you gonna in trouble. I know it. I don’t want to see the police in my house. I don’t want the police coming back in my house.” Is what he told me, and they never did. The cops never -- I got arrested a couple of times. JJ: For what? Or, I mean... GG: Well, you know, curfews, drinking kinda stuff. You know, “We’re gonna call...” 25 �They would take me to the local police station, which was Kensington at the time, 115th Street and Indiana. [00:51:00] Would put me in there. Nobody’d come pick me up. They would let me go in the morning. That was it. You know? Those were the days where you really didn’t get in trouble. You know, not like today, where everything is an assault on society. In those days the cops would be coming by. There would be -- ’cause a lot of the kids that I grew up with were sons or nephews or knew the father of a copper from the neighborhood. And the coppers would come by, it was in the early ’60s -- no, not early. Middle ’60s to, you know, ’70s, something like that. The cop car would come by. He would bang on the door. He would call one of the guys. Come on over. He’ll whisper something in his ear. The cop would go. The kid would come back, say, “Let’s put all that shit away.” [00:52:00] Let’s leave a couple of beers. The paddy wagon would come by then. They would call us over. They would go, grab that beer that was there and whatever that was open. In front of the neighborhood, they would spill the booze on the ground. They would slap us around a little bit. They would put us in the paddy wagon, drive us away, and drop us down. And let us go a block away. You know? That was their way of keeping the neighbors from getting crazy. It was a way of letting us know that if they really wanted to bust us, they could. But we were, you know, we’re hanging out with this guy who was the nephew or the son of that cop and so we’re friends. But when they wanted to arrest us, they did. You know, when they got tired of our stuff, they did come down, they put us in handcuffs, and took us to the police station and write us up and... (snaps) [00:53:00] But I never took the problems home. That was, 26 �like, the one thing. The other thing is to graduate from high school no matter what. So I was ready to say, “Shh, I’m done. I’m done with this thing.” So I never studied. I never really, really studied. I never put the brain to work. I never put in effort to school. And therefore, I never heard from the counselors ’cause when they talked to me, and I rem-- (inaudible) they would say, “You know what? You’re not college material man, so you don’t have to see me. You know, you’re not this and you’re not that.” And by my senior year, there were all these kids that were preparing themselves to go to college, and they were all excited. Some of them were goin’ over here and some were goin’ over there. I never knew what those places were ’cause they seemed so vague. They were like a fog [00:54:00] to me, those places they were talking about going to school. They were fogs, you know, ’cause I never knew them. I was not familiar with them. My world was here. That’s it. And out of that circle, I was never gonna come out. But in ’72, my brother Guillermo graduates from Fenger. He went through the same problems I did except a year after me. And he says to me one day, “Hey, man. Take me to Thorton Community College. I’m gonna go apply there.” I looked at him with such an idiotic and stupid thought, me. “You’re gonna go where? You’re my brother. You’re not smart enough to go to college.” That was my -- and actually, [00:55:00] my brother is tremendously intellect, has a tremendous intellect. So I take him to Thorton Community College, and the lady there says to me, “He’s going to take the entrance exam to your college.” You know (inaudible). So the lady says to me, “You know what? You’re already here. Why don’t you take the test? If you don’t make it, you don’t make it. 27 �There’s nothing gained, nothing lost. I took it, and lo and behold, Cha-Cha, I passed the damn thing. Mathematics, English, science, and whatever else was in that test, I think a little bit of an essay. And then he goes -- A couple of weeks later, I get a letter of acceptance from this college and I go, “Come and see your college counselor. [00:56:00] Talk about your classes.” That is where my life changed. I think that was a pivotal place in my life that began to bring me to this place. I don’t think that -- there’s been other places, other flags, other places where I’ve changed life, but that was the beginning of my life, truly began from a conscious perspective. When my eyes were awake, where I was not this young kid, still kind of balancing life between stupidity and nowhere to go. You know what I mean? I was 19 years old. Those two years at Thorton Community College gave me -JJ: What was that? On the North Side or...? [00:57:00] GG: That was -- No, I lived in the South Side all my life. I’m not a North Sider. I was never a North Sider until 1980. You know never a North Sider. I never went to a Cubs game. JJ: Sox? GG: I’m still a White Sox fan. I’m not a fanatic, but they’re in first place. What the hell? So I’m a White Sacks fan today. (laughter) We used to sneak into the old Cominsky Park. There was a way for us to sneak in the old Cominsky Park. I think they thought, if you know where it’s at and you snuck in, we’re gonna let you stay. You know, it was one of those deals. But it was in 1972 when I talked to that counselor and I was actually in the present versus, like, in that fog. What 28 �the hell? You know, I was just working. [00:58:00] I was working for my pops, with my pops, as a welder in that time. That was gonna be my job. I actually thought I was gonna be a welder for the rest of my life, and the money was good. Being a welder at a young age, making almost seventeen dollars an hour, you’re a wealthy kid. You makin’ $17 an hour today. You’re doing pretty well, I would say, if you’re an unskilled worker. And I was learning a skill, welding. And I probably would have stayed if it wasn’t for the steel strike that threw everything out the window. And so that steel strike, in combination with taking that test, getting that acceptance letter, and talking to this counselor that [00:59:00] opened and unfogged my mind. Clear. Now, I didn’t know what the path was, but it definitely became clearer. By this time, I was already be -- you know, because of being in the whole hippie movement and all of that, I was already reading books. I was getting a personal education in sociopolitics. I was aware what was happening in Mexico. The whole craziness with the Tlatelolco Square where all the kids got killed during the olimpiadas of ’68. The raised glove from the Black boxers showing that kind of solidarity of Black power. My first remnances of talking about the Black Panthers and [01:00:00] the Brown Berets. I was still not familiar with the Young Lords yet until about maybe ’74, ’75 I think, when I first read my first article. And I think it was on -- I don’t remember exactly. I’m not sure if it was the taking of the church when that was, but it was not there. That’s foggy because I was still not clear, you know, still not paying attention to things. And so then I found out that I placed quite highly in my entrance exam. I always thought I was, kind of, not very smart. My intellect, I always thought of it 29 �as being not way up there. Taking those two years of college in Thorton Community College [01:01:00] really opened up my mind. My reading level raised. My writing skills raised. I took speech classes. I took all kinds of philosophy classes. I took film appreciation, theater appreciation. My grades rose to as and bs. And then what? An associate’s degree? What the hell is that? By this time, I was no longer, “Ah, who cares about school?” By this time, I’m saying, what’s after that? What’s gonna make it? So one day, I was stuck into a couple of Black veterans. At the student union of Thornton, it was like an L. It was the student union, like an L. And then one part of the L, the long part of the L, is where all the other students hung out. In the little part of the L is where the African Americans hung out, mostly vets. They played chess. [01:02:00] So I used to play chess with them. And they talked about -- there was another learning lesson, they talked about Vietnam and they talked about the politics and they talked about how the Blacks were put out front, along with the other Latinos and Mexicans. How they would arrive in Vietnam, and they would be at the front, they would be at point. So all these things about Vietnam, and how Vietnam was affecting them, and how, now that they were veterans, they come back, and they were nothing but niggers again. And I’m not going to excuse myself for using the word, because that’s a fact of 1972. People go, “Oh, the n-word.” Well, you know what? They were niggers. That’s what they were, as I was a spic, you know, and that kind of stuff. People sometimes get so dislocated with reality -with one reality versus another, that, [01:03:00] you know, they would say, “Yeah, they dress like niggers, man. You know, we’re veterans, we fought. I have a 30 �purple heart, I have this, I have...” They would come to school with an army shirt, with the medals, just to show that, you know, they were men of honor, and they were still being treated like second class. And one of those guys, so it was him and this guy named [John Sherrods?], coming from the Ada S. McKinley Agency. I think it still exists today, primarily doing services to the Black community. They spoke about monies in Wisconsin, monies for minorities, lots of money. Abundant, I mean, they were throwing monies up in the air, and that kind of stuff. I went to the workshop, took it, made my applications. I applied at places like Madison, Wisconsin, La Crosse, Green Bay, [01:04:00] and this little town called Whitewater, Wisconsin. Whitewater there’s a Chicano recruiter who comes and says, “I can get you guys in. You’re older --” By this time I was already in my early 20s. And he says, “I want you and your brother to come up here. And, you know, can you send us a reason why you want to?” By this time it was much more political. We ended up in Whitewater, Cha-cha, and we become really political. That’s where we started talking about the Chicano movement and the politics. And really started looking towards a Chicano Studies Department and a Chicano recruitment program, making connections with California and Colorado and Texas. JJ: With Chicano groups there or movements? GG: There was a small Chicano group that was really [01:05:00] lost. They were all young. They had really no leadership qualities. That’s why -- what’s his name? Oh, man. I had his name in my head and I just lost -- it’ll come back to me. JJ: But is Chicano meant the -- a person born here or...? What is the-- 31 �GG: Well, the Chicano terminology -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) ok GG: -- has a lot of different, you know places. But the way that I like to interpret it is a person of Mexican descent, born primarily in the Southwest, who has grown -who comes from that fruit of the descent franchise because of the 1848 war, that [01:06:00] has family, relatives, and the whole thing that happened during the Zoot Suit Riots. That’s where all the whole Chicano movement, you know, has its base, has its roots, has its -- the sense of power. But the thing that makes this kind of interesting is that it was in Crystal, in Texas, when the first high school students started to walk out, started to demand bilingual education, started to demand multiculturalism, started to demand a lot of things versus California. California ended up with the bigger piece of the pie, along with Colorado, because they had people who were willing, from the upper echelons, such as professors and teachers and social workers [01:07:00] and other activists, you know, out of California. Of course, there was Rodolfo Acuña who wrote Occupied America. And out of Colorado, you know, you had Jorge Gonzalez and the whole Brown Beret movement, that kind of stuff. So we get there and there’s Chicanos from California, there’s Chicanos from Texas, and there’s Chicanos from Colorado. And there was [Donald Salazar?] from Colorado, it was [José de Paz?] from Northwest California, and I don’t remember the guy from Texas, but he was outta Crystal, not a very active character. Maybe that’s why I don’t remember him. And then of course, out of California also came out this Gilbert Cano, who was also a strong activist, out of California. So this guy 32 �started recruiting all these older characters, and we got to Whitewater, and in Whitewater [01:08:00] is when we get the whole Chicano -- Their name was Estudiantes de Aguas Blancas, Students of Whitewater. They translate Whitewater to aguas blancas. [01:08:11] And they says, you know, that “We’re the Latino, the Mexican, you know, Latinos de Aguas Blancas.” And we changed that to MEChA, Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán. So we became MEChistas. Then they gave us a title to California. JJ: Was this the original group or was there a tag to another...? GG: Well, MEChA came out of California. And different campuses created their own organization, but we used the same bylaws and mission statements so that we all were part of this. Now, we were affiliated only by [01:09:00] our drive to be affiliated to something bigger than. So when we used to say we’re MEChA out of Whitewater, which was about 30 to 50 students, we’re not talking about 30, 50 students. We were talking about several thousand students because we were tied to California, Colorado. So we always say, “Well, you know, we’re MEChA. We are --” So we made ourselves be part of a national movement. And the reason that we did it is because by the time the guys from the Southwest arrived in this little town of Whitewater, they brought in all these ideas, all these crazy ideas about what -- (break in audio) GG: -- better. And it was at that -- JJ: (inaudible) thinkin’ Whitewater’s way up north in Wisconsin? GG: Whitewater is [01:10:00] 250 miles from here. It’s a little bitty school. Now it’s 33 �actually a very well-recognized school, even though small. Big on education, big on social work, business. Now it’s big on the arts. It was one of the first schools (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: Is it by Milwaukee or something or...? GG: It’s west of Milwaukee and southeast of Madison. And it became the seed of the Chicano movement in Wisconsin. And as a matter of fact, we were ahead of even Chicago. The students in Chicago were still [LAMAS?] you know, Latin American Student Association. LASO, not LAMAS, Latin American Student Organization. You know, there was still using Latin American wording where we said, “No, we’re gonna be --” We planted the [01:11:00] word Chicano into our organization, into everything we did.” We created the first Chicano recruitment program. There was a minority recruitment program, but minority, for us, was Blacks, you know. It was all Black-run. Most of the recruitment was done within the Black neighborhoods. Hey, it’s okay. You know, we said, “It’s fine with us. We don’t want their pie. We want a piece of our pie, but not from their pie. We want a piece of pie but from your pie, from the university.” You know, we didn’t want money from the minority programs because they already were there. And so all they were going to do is split that and we’re going to anger the brothers. So we [01:12:00] demanded our own, which we did. And we started having conferences, Chicano conferences, and Rudy Acuña would come, and others come. And then the leadership from Chicago came to one of our conferences. Chuy García came, Rudy Lozano came. A few others, you know, started coming. So we saw that now our little Chicano movement in Whitewater began 34 �to really take root with the leadership in Chicago. And even though the difference is -- and even though we said we were saying, “Chicago -- Chicanos, we’re Chicanos,” and this and that, the majority of us from this area were Mexican. We really didn’t fit the criteria of the Chicano as it is defined. [01:13:00] But we were becoming very political. We were demanding things. We were marching. Our connection to Chicago became very strong in that we began to meet people that spread our wings. And in, I think it was 1978, my brother Guillermo came to Chicago. There was a huge march, and I believe it was in protest of the killing of a couple of young Boricuas. And as members of the Chicano movement, we wanted to show solidarity. So we came from Whitewater to be part of that. I was not able to come for some reason. Later, or before that-JJ: What year was this? GG: I think it was 1978. [01:14:00] Maybe ’79, but could be-- I’m not sure. But I know it was a huge march that they started in Humboldt Park and they marched downtown. And they had ’em going through these very tight streets, man. They had a very controlled-- my brother was telling me -- Oh, I was working. That’s why I couldn’t go, I had to... And also there was this guy named [Felipe?]. He was the brother of a woman that was doing her master’s degree in Whitewater. And he was hooked up with Roberto Caldero, Luis Gutiérrez, who else was part of that? And that was when that whole -- the FALN and, you know, things were getting hot with the FALN. And, you know, your name came up. So we came looking for Felipe. It was a nasty, nasty January storm. [01:15:00] I think it was in January. And we found ’em all up in the North Side, which was my first 35 �experience. And they were not necessarily hiding, but they were kind of keeping low, keeping a low profile in this apartment in the north side. And Felipe was -and I can’t -- Felipe [González?], was it? No, no, no. Felipe something. As a matter of fact, he was involved for a long time in the North Side with the Puerto Rican community. So those were my first connections to Chicago. I already knew about you by this time. JJ: You’re talking about David -- not [David Hernández?] or...? GG: David Hernandez, I met later. Yeah, no. David Hernandez and [Eliud?] and [Victor González?] and a few others, but that was more in the education side. [01:16:00] When I came back -- by this time, I was aware of the Young Lords. I was aware of the takeover in the church. I was aware of a lot of things, but we’ve never -- I knew who you were. JJ: Were you reading about it or did you -- how did you hear --how were you -- GG: I had read about it and it was oral his-- you know, and people talking about, you know, “Oh man.” About the Young Lords and about you. JJ: So while it was taking place, you didn’t hear about it, you didn’t pay attention? I mean -- GG: No, no. I know -- JJ: -- ’cause you were in Chicago in ’69. GG: Yeah. JJ: But you weren’t there? GG: In ’69, I wasn’t paying a lot of attention. I heard about it through the news, but I wasn’t payin’ a lot of attention. My attention span in ’69 and ’70 was survival, just 36 �survival. I think I read an article in a newspaper called Rising Up Angry [01:17:00] ’cause I used to read that newspaper a lot. I think there’s where it was one of my first places where I read about the Young Lords and about you and the arrests and all of that stuff, but I was still not there yet. My thing is, “I’m on the South Side. Who gives a shit about the North Side? We’re surviving over there.” But by mid-’70s -- actually, by ’78, that’s when we were already fully committed to political activism. We’re meeting people from all over the place. I mentioned that I met Reies López Tijerina here in the South Side at Governor’s State -- which is now Governor’s State University. JJ: And who is he, Reyes Lopez Tijerina? GG: Reyes Lopez Tijerina is from New Mexico. His claim to fame was the lands. He had deeds [01:18:00] that he, either through his own family and/or through families that he knew, you know, in Mexico that said that they had the original deeds to these lands, and so he was fighting for them. There was a point in time where he was arrested and thrown in jail. There were rumors that he was tortured, that they used electroshock on him ’cause when he was in jail and when he came out, he was two different people. When I met him, he was a little slower. His fiery speeches were not as -- ’cause he used to be a very prolific and vibrant speaker. And a lot of things were already in his head, all these things. He knew about the land grants really well. [01:19:00] I had learned and read about him when he took a group of revolucionarios, as he called them, to take over -- no, to release a prisoner from one of the police stations. They got arrested without cause. They wanted to go to this police station. So that got my 37 �-- when he came to speak at Governor State, I wanted to go and check it out. So I went and checked it out and I met him. We talked. I used to have photographs, but they got destroyed in a fire, unfortunately. I had a lot of photographs from the ’70s and early ’80s with all kinds of people and it just like, (mimics flames) fire can really destroy shit. But another turn in 1979 -- [01:20:00] by 1979, I was the last director of the Chicano Studies Department that we created in Whitewater. And by 1979, I was getting disillusioned with Whitewater. JJ: Now how did you do that? I mean, how did you get that? GG: The Chicano Studies Department? JJ: Yeah. GG: Well first of all, we hooked up with activists in the local community. A lot of them were ex-migrant workers. A lot of them were people working in the local farms, but their kids were going to high school, they were going to school, and they wanna get ’em out of there. So in Whitewater, we started pushing for Chicano studies and Chicano studies that we demanded our own, and so we brought in Rudy Acuña from California to deal with the chancellor, and we brought in [01:21:00] documentation. And before you know it the -- and we marched. We used to call them the silent marches and we would march silently, in single file, five feet from one another so we could make the line look long. But it also was very powerful in that silently, with our placards -- No, you know, it was no Chicago power -- Chicano power, there was no down with the state. There was no -- all of it was said in our signs, and we marched silently. And we marched silently around the school. And the newspaper, Royal Purple started writing 38 �stories. The African organizations started joining us, you know, started supporting, because we got Chicano studies. They’d been wanting Black studies for years, and they were not getting anything. [01:22:00] We were getting the socalled minority studies by white teachers who learned about minorities in their sociology class. That was their extent, and so we said, “No, we want--” We demanded our own teachers, we demanded our own... So finally, the Chancellor, Chancellor [Connor?] acquiesced. And he sent a report to Madison, Wisconsin, which was the mothership, the big university. They said, “Yeah, do what you want. We gotta --” And we had our Chicano studies department. Our first director, our first chair was José de Paz from California, who was a student at the time. (inaudible) he was just graduating, just getting his master’s degree. And then we brought in two more [01:23:00] professors. They left, and I was left behind. And I said, “Okay, I’m gonna take it for one year, from ’70 -- or a year and a half.” Middle of ’78 through ’79. But I was also getting ready, I’d been there for six years already. It’s time for me to get the heck out of there. And so I did. I started applying for jobs. I applied at a place called The Bridge Youth Services, as a community organizer. And I met two people. One of them is named [Oved Lopez?], and the other one, [Elva Vazquez?]. I met -- and I remember them, there were also (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: What year was this? GG: It was already ’80. January, February of ’80, or maybe fall of ’79. But it was in that -- ’cause I got the job in ’80. [01:24:00] And I saw Elva and I saw Oved. They were both applying for the job. And when I -- and we’d say hello, that was 39 �it. And then they both said, “Hey, if you get the job, give us a call. Give us a call.” I got the job. Couple of months later, I called Elva ’cause Oved had talked about having this little -- he talked about LADO and he talked about what they did and he talked about there was a free clinic and education and all of this, and Elva used to teach there, and all these little programs that they were doing to serve the community around Oakley and North Avenue. So I came and met Elva. We talked a little bit. [01:25:00] She agreed to help me out to bring services to Rand Grove Village, which is where I was now going to be working as a community organizer with a Section 8 community in the -- it’s called Unincorporated Palatine. And so, there was nothing there. Run by, you know, Appalachian white couple who were a bit on the racist side, mostly black and Puerto Rican, some Mexican. Some of them were out of Humboldt Park, unfortunately, ’cause -- or Lincoln Park. ’Cause by this time, I already knew the whole history of the Puerto Rican community being moved out from that area. The whole -JJ: How did you find out? GG: Well, through the news, through reading. I mean, by this time, I was pretty [01:26:00] much aware. I was keeping aware of what was happening in Lincoln Park. The whole -- what they used to call the urban pioneers, you know, that then became the yuppies, and how the Puerto Rican community was being displaced and being moved towards Humboldt Park and further west and wherever they could go. And then, when I met Elva and Oved, and I started coming down to their storefront, is when your name really popped. When he started talking about all of that history, Omar, I met Omar, and how he was a 40 �member of the Young Lords, being one of the non-Puerto Ricans. “I’m Mexican, a member of the Young Lords.” [01:27:00] He was like your secretary of communication or something. JJ: Minister of information. GG: Minister of information. And so, I saw photographs of your protests. I saw photographs of Oved [head?], at his disposal. And it just seemed quite easily that we just blended in. Me coming from Whitewater, looking for a place to get involved again. I got more involved in the North Side as a Mexican, as a Chicano, than I did in Pilsen. You know, in Pilsen there was Rudy Lozano and [Juan Velasquez?] and, you know, Chuy García and all these [01:28:00] other characters. There was really no place for me. And my brother Guillermo was making inroads into that community. But it was not really -- I really didn’t fit in for some reason. Or I didn’t, it was not that -- I just -- it was just not my time. I ended up marrying Elva, as you know. But it was really interesting ’cause then, the more they talked about what was happening on the North Side, the more I felt like I thought I had a place for me to bring the skills and the experiences that I had learned out of the university setting, and out of a -- JJ: How long did you do the Latino studies? I mean the Chi-- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: The Chicano studies? [01:29:00] Yeah, yeah. No, no the -- JJ: Chicano Studies. GG: Well, I went through the program. I took Chicano studies myself. And then in ’79, when we -- 41 �JJ: That’s a couple of years, then. Chicano (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: Oh, yeah. A couple of years, definitely. JJ: Of taking the program. GG: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then when I took over -- so I continued, you know. I mean, we’re teaching history, we’re teaching politics, we’re teaching sociology, we’re teaching literature. Of course, one of the biggest, in literature we’re using, of course, Jorge González, José Joaquin. We’re using No Se Lo Tragó La Tierra, Tomás Rivera. We’re using Bless Mi, Ultima by -- (snaps) No, no. No Se Lo Tragó La Tierra. Bless Mi, Ultima is the one I can’t remember the -- Rodolfo Anaya [01:30:00] is the author of tremendous books which are now banned, by the way, in Arizona and New Mexico because of the anti-Chicano movement, anti-Mexicanism that Arizona and the southwest is carrying, which is tremendously messed up that in the year 2012 we have such blatant racism that people see it as patriotism, as Americanism, which continues to add fuel to my fire in regards to the United States and its non-democratic -- or its democratic hypocrisy. A connection that I have with you is that when you got out of jail, and I think it was 1981. JJ: That was for the -- GG: After the FALN -- JJ: -- FALN case. GG: -- thing. [01:31:00] You were getting out, I think it was ’81, and we were going to meet you at a bar on North Avenue, which is now a Pizza Hut, I think. We were gonna meet you there and I walked in there. I had a brown beret, and I walked in 42 �first. I was gonna meet Elva and Oved and Omar, and you were late. (laughter) You were late. And I came in first because Elva and those guys -- so I (inaudible) is there were some Kings in there, and they were going, “That’s Chacha Jiménez.” Said, “Nah, that’s not Cha-cha.” Finally, one of the bartenders comes up and says, “Hey man, are you Cha-cha Jiménez?” I go, “No, but I’m waiting for him.” And he says, “Well, you know, those are Kings over there. Be careful, ’cause they think--” (knocking) (break in audio) GG: Actually, so, I mean, that was my first -- JJ: So go back. So the first time was about right after the FALN case? GG: Yeah. [01:32:00] That, I mean -- JJ: And the thing was late and you said the Kings. GG: There was a couple of Kings in there, and for some reason, they did not like the fact that you were gonna be there. What that reason is, to tell you the truth, I had -- to this day, I don’t know. The good thing is that Oved showed up with Elva, finally. He knew those guys. He went and talked to them. They relaxed. He didn’t say you were coming. Then you show up a little while later. We met, and I don’t know where the hell we went from there, to be honest with you. All we did was meet there, and then we left there little while afterwards. But that was the first time that we were face to face, and we looked at each other. And either Elva or Oved, because I had told ’em the story, said how similar we actually did look because we were both, you know, kind of [01:33:00] white and just similarities in features and stuff like that. And of course, you walk in and you got a beret on, 43 �too. And I took mine off, but I had longer hair. You know, I used to have long hair. From then on, little by little, we began to cross paths. When Harold Washington started to run, we were very -- Elva and I -- well, and off course, the whole Latino side of the progressive movement, you know, the independent politics, went right after Washington. We fell behind them. We had just done some really strong things in Pilsen with the election of [01:34:00] Juan Soliz at the time, not only from state representative, definitely to alderman. There was push from this side. You know, Luis Gutiérrez was beginning to develop. And then you came out -JJ: We had that coalition, you know. GG: The co-- right. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) those agreements. GG: And then you decided that you were going to launch a -- JJ: That was before that. That was alderman campaign? GG: Yeah. What was that -- JJ: 1975. That was 1975. GG: Yeah, but in 19-- JJ: The timeline, I think, we got it a little mixed (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: No, no, no. It was another time. Then it had to be the Harold Washington thing. ’Cause we met at our house. I was living now in Washington and Fullerton on the second floor. You came, it was you, definitely Oved, maybe even [Carlos Pérez?], maybe, you know, [Marla?] for sure, that were talking about an election. And part of that election, of course, [01:35:00] was Harold Washington. But the 44 �other one, for some reason, I always thought that you wanted to run for alderman as well. JJ: I ran in 1975. GG: I know that, but I don’t know why I thought you wanted to run again at that time. I don’t know why I have that bird in my -- (inaudible) about birds. JJ: (laughs) Well, during the Harold Washington campaign we had a coalition -- GG: Yeah. JJ: -- with Soliz -- GG: Yeah. JJ: -- and Rudy Lozano, you know, Reverend Jorge Morales, and... GG: Right. Right, right, right, right. JJ: You know, (inaudible) that coalition of like five people at that time. GG: At the time. JJ: And then we had the rally at North West Fall and that -- GG: Right. JJ: I don’t know if you went -- GG: Yeah, the second floor. JJ: Did you go to that? GG: Yeah, yeah, the second floor. JJ: And what was that like? Can you describe that? GG: Well, I think at that rally, I began to see what appeared to me was the beginning divisions of our communities. [01:36:00] In that, Reverend Morales was a very strong character with a very passionate Puerto Rican ideology. And he seemed, 45 �to me, to skew the issue of being a coalition of progressives, Latinos, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, with a progressive black community. But I think -- I began to talk with a couple of people about that, that Reverend Morales definitely wanted a controlling factor. As he being a leader, as he wanted to do things. And he began to [01:37:00] push people out. And I always thought that you were one of those people that he wanted out. I thought he didn’t want y-- and he also definitely didn’t want the Mexicans in there. He felt that the Puerto Ricans being citizens, being a voting Black, being this and that, that that would be his way of growing in stature and in status. That’s what I remember out of it. We all came out shaking hands, we all came out hugging and kissing, but I don’t think there was another rally like that after that. I don’t think there was. There was a lot of little groupings, I think, a lot of meetings in different places, meetings in Pilsen, meetings in Little Village, and meetings up here. [01:38:00] But the West Town coalition, I, you know, wanted to take control, I thought. And the West Town Coalition was not really a coalition that I -- and I think [Peter Earl?] was part of that at one time. And you always talk to Young Lords. You always said the Young Lords. You always said, you know, “The Young Lords can do this.” You always tried to rally the community to be a Young Lord affiliate, where the Reverend Morales was more of a West Town coalition organization. And to me, even though in the end Washington was elected, people were elected to city council, there were people who were left out. And yeah, I thought you were one of those that was left out. And I thought that was one of the biggest shames. That’s why I thought you were running [01:39:00] for alderman. I think that that’s 46 �why I thought, I thought you should have been one of the people that should have been in that city council at that time when everybody -- when all the Latinos were coming in that -- and maybe we talked about it, or maybe somewhere along the line, but I believe that you were iced out from that time on. And we’re all, I think the Mexicans got iced out. It just seemed -- and then when Harold Washington was in office, it just seemed that some people elbowed their way into being part of the inside clique that really didn’t belong. And the ones -- a lot of the workhorses like the Cha-cha Jiménez was not there. Or if you were there, you were on the [01:40:00] outskirts of it. You know ’cause you were not even invited to that, what was that, the Latino committee, Hispanic committee or something that was formed? JJ: No, we actually helped form that. GG: Yeah, but you were not in it. JJ: No, no. We were not in it because my record became an issue, so we kind of quieted down. But it was an issue during the campaign. GG: Right, right. No. JJ: When we got the votes, it wasn’t an issue. But it was an issue later, but the media was after a few people. So, I mean, we understood that. But you know, we were being -- we were new. We were novices. And, you know, our passion was to get Harold elected. GG: No, I -- absolutely. JJ: He did -- we were able to introduce him at Humboldt Park. GG: Yes, yes. 47 �JJ: Were you there at that event or...? GG: Yes. I was. [01:41:00] Well, you know, I -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Can you describe (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: Well, you know what I -- JJ: When they first came to the neighborhood festivals. Do you remember that? GG: Well, I think when he came the Puerto Rican-- JJ: After he won. After he won. GG: Yeah, when he came to the Puerto Rican fe-- the Humboldt Park festival I think that he came in -- JJ: ’Cause I was the only one on stage in terms of -- GG: He’d be a -- like, yeah. JJ: -- members of the community. GG: ’Cause you know he was -- that’s right. (inaudible) JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: You were the only one up there. You were the one they -- JJ: That his way of saying thank you. GG: Yeah. Yeah. JJ: I was the only on stage and there was a crowd of 100,000 people. I mean that we had buttons, 30,000 people wearin’ buttons. GG: (laughs) JJ: I mean what -- GG: Yeah, don’t -- 48 �JJ: I mean, what -- GG: What -- JJ: What do you remember? GG: No, when I think of that -- what I think, that was his payback to the Humboldt Park community, to the Puerto Rican community it was his payback. And I think that he, [01:42:00] to me, he was one of the most genuine political figures who really tried to bring into an agenda a whole bunch of ideas. The unfortunate thing, and I don’t say that negatively it’s only the unfortunate thing, is that we were all too headstrong. We demanded too many things and we refuse to be nonpartisan at things. You know, the Mexicans demanded things, the Puerto Ricans demanded things, the Blacks demanded things, and he was trying to appease us all. And we, you know, we kinda, as you said we’re new and all of those things that would be. I think we kinda tripped over each other a little bit and we stepped on some toes and we broke some eggs. And instead of walking on eggshells, we were just [01:43:00] crushin’ them. And so I think that that’s where the evil cabal realized that Harold was not that strong. JJ: And who were the evil cabal? GG: Well that was Vrdolyak, that Alderman Mell, Alderman Burke. But to me, those were the three main characters and everybody else was -- think there was like seven of them, you know (inaudible) But those were the th-- JJ: And what did they do? I mean what...? GG: Well they did, as a matter of fact, they did to Harold Washington blocking everything, halting, filibustering, embarrassing him. They did everything they 49 �could to keep him from developing any kind of positive programming, which is what the Republican Party’s doing to President Obama today. The same kind of thing. You know, the evil cabal of [01:44:00] Mitt Romney and now Paul Ryan and all those other idiots. I’m not even gonna deal with that. But I think that the white political aristocracy of the daily regime that Jane Byrne tried to deal with, but they left her pretty much -- you know, she was a woman “Eh.” You know, they let her slide because she was a woman and, you know, Irish. They did not do that with Harold Washington. They saw him as being too anti-machine and so they just stopped it. You know, they just put a stop to everything. [01:45:00] Standing on tables yelling, it’s Alderman Mell standing on a table yelling at top of his lungs as to... You know what? That was a circus. Mike Royko had a great time with it, another columnist of the time (pause) saying, you know, pointing out the obvious that they would not have done it to anybody else but Harold. When you don’t let a leader propose programming and council acting upon those proposals and being, of course, dealing and talking about it, you know, trying to negotiate, whatever, there was none of that with Harold. And that also became our own [01:46:00] falling because then we begin to bicker, I think. I think that we as a community will begin to bicker and that’s unfortunate. Even our own leadership began to bicker once Juan Soliz fucked up. I mean, I was a strong supporter. JJ: What do you mean he messed up? GG: When he became alderman -- he was really good when he was when he was a state rep. When he came back, when we brought him back and to put him, you 50 �know, and have him be our political leader. The murder of Rudy Lozano. JJ: Which was actually two days after the event in Humboldt Park. GG: Oh sh-- yes. Yeah. JJ: Is that n-- (laughs) GG: That is ironic, isn’t it? JJ: It’s ironic and I remember that well. GG: Yeah. JJ: So we have a rally in Humboldt Park with 100,000 Puerto Ricans -- GG: Right, right. JJ: And now Rudy Lozano’s planning the same thing in the [01:47:00] Mexican community -- GG: In Little Village. JJ: --and exactly two days after Humboldt Park he’s killed. GG: He’s murdered. Yep. JJ: And how was -- how did -- they said it was local gang. GG: Well, like, supposedly a local gangbanger came in that he knew, let him into his kitchen to use the bathroom, got glass of water, the stories go all over the place. And as he came out, he put a couple of bullets into Rudy’s body. I’ve always thought it was a hit for hire. I think if anybody says different, you know, it’s so what. JJ: And who was Rudy Lozano? GG: Well, Rudy Lozano actually had been an organizer in the textile area and then coming out of there developing a very strong voice for the for [01:48:00] the 51 �Mexican community of Little Village. He began to emerge as a bigger voice than Juan Soliz who actually was a natural leader. But he began to -- this is what I also think, when he became alderman, he started finagling other things later. And so I think they even tried to blame it on Juan that that you know, Juan that but that’s so far-fetched. He was actually bringing a strong union presence in the Mexican community, in the Mexican political movement that -- he was a person to reckon with, who was also on certain circles in -- not yet even an alderman, [01:49:00] was him possibly talking about running for the mayorship of the city. You know, after Harold, which was quite interesting. A lot of people would say, “You know what after Harold, when he’s done with this, you know, we can groom Rudy Lozano to that.” And I think somebody, whether it was, you know -- yeah, I’m going into trouble on this one. It could mean that, you know, some of the some of the entrenched, longtime Mexican Mafia that was within the within the daily regime could have had a handle on this, as well. It could have been just the Irish Mafia itself, you know, dealing with it. Instead of killing the mayor, well they do something different. It is an issue that can be [01:50:00] analyzed and studied from 380 [sic] degrees, and you happen to be part of all of that. I think that’s quite interesting. And the only thing -JJ: We helped lead the funeral procession. Remember? We had [lunch?]. GG: Yes, we did. JJ: And it was a Young Lords (inaudible) -- GG: Yeah. JJ: that helped lead that. 52 �GG: Yep. JJ: With, you know, of course with Chuy Garcia in the leadership -- GG: Uh-huh JJ: -- role, but it was -- GG: Yes. Yeah. JJ: -- Young Lords and Slim Coleman and Marion (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) GG: Not one of my favorite characters, to tell the truth. JJ: And Marion Stamps. GG: Yeah. JJ: Marion Stamps and -- GG: Yeah or [Mary?] Stamps. Yeah, I was a (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: -- his name was [Al Sampson?], I think, from the South Side. GG: Yeah, yeah. JJ: From... GG: From South Chicago. JJ: But that group, we put that together the first memorial march. GG: You know what, I think that that was one of the largest processions for a Mexican leader who was still [01:51:00] flourishing, you know, he was not an old guy who had done all these things. He was, you know, he was just an activist who -- JJ: But you recall that march. Were you there or...? GG: Yeah, of course. But, like I said, I was (laughter) JJ: The South Side. GG: Yeah, I was in the far back. No, but I think that Rudy was -- 53 �JJ: But you were aware that we were part -- GG: We were, like -- JJ: -- of our gang. GG: Yes, of course, of course. I mean, I was good friends with Rudy, you know, I was -- as a matter of fact when our IPO which was Rudy, Chuy, Juan Soliz, split, we stayed with Soliz ’cause, you know, we had been working with it for a long time and... But at the same time we didn’t want to break ties with either Chuy or Rudy and so where some people broke ties, I kept friendships with. And I would go to the rallies and things like that. I would go to the fundraisers, you know. [01:52:00] So I didn’t want to break it. And, ironically, when Juan Soliz pissed me off was when he gave a bigger role to one of his lower helpers than my brother Guillermo who was his campaign manager and the one who (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)-- JJ: So your brother was his campaign manager? GG: Yeah, for both of those wins, you know, for state rep and then for alderman, he was his campaign manager. JJ: Oh, okay. Your brother Guillermo was the campaign manager. Yeah. And so when and when Juan began to isolate him because other people with money and that kind of thing were st-- you know, he began to develop his own little leadership over here of people with cash, and being twice old as my brother, I told Juan Soliz to go fuck himself, you know. And I told him I would never work with him. And I told my brother, says, “Sooner or later, man. He’s [01:53:00] gonna screw you. You better get ready to get the hell out of there.” And he did. 54 �And after all that those little things, Juan Soliz became a clown. You know, getting drunk at bars, his wife [Lete?], walking around in the summer with a fur coat on. You know, they thought they were the royalty of Pilsen unfortunately and she was beautiful, wonderful person and I don’t know what happened to her. And, you know, Juan Soliz, today, is an ambulance chaser. I have very little respect for that guy, where I continue a good friendship with Chuy, I continue a good friendship with, you know, Rudy’s wife, I have a good friendship with Rudy Junior. You know what I mean? That’s the irony of things. When Rudy Junior was running and I supported. Not necessarily a lot in being there physically but definitely -(break in audio) GG: --port him financially and by [01:54:00] going to events and things like that. You know, who knew kind of thing. You know, who knew that all of these things came to pass and they’re going around in a circle. I think that what you’re doing with this documentary, these oral histories and how we are tied into you it’s very interesting and very important ’cause it shows that all the people that, through one way or another, you know, cross your paths and how we participated, little or a lot, in the struggles that you have gone through in regards to the Young Lords. And it’s also quite interesting and beautiful, I think, how the Young Lords transformed themselves back then, but how you kept it the Young Lords and now [01:55:00] transformed them to such a point where the respect that is being received because of your work and the works that you’ve done from those days [of the ’80s?] this way. Still an activist, is still a person with a voice in regards to 55 �justice, in regards to not just a Puerto Rican community, but now, you know, you’re -- we cannot just say Puerto Rican community in 2012. You know what I mean? We have to -- sometimes I get pissed off Luis Gutiérrez ’cause, you know, he’s more Mexican than Puerto Rican nowadays. (laughs) Let us be, you know. But I respect that. I think that we have to cross those -- I think those boundaries between our communities have to be -- or, you know, the bridge has to be built in such a way that there’s gonna be a 2044. You know what I mean? [01:56:00] (pause) The United States as it is, or as it was in the ’50s, it will no longer exist 25,30 years from now. Our communities are growing and the more anti-Mexicanism, the more anti-Latino, the more anti- this, you know, the more that we get together, the more that we’re going to create a hell of a -(break in audio) GG: Anyway, so tying all of these things up in regards to the coalition between the Puerto Rican and all of the Latinos that are coming to United States would change in the United States. Myself, I believe that I’ve helped participate. By participate, I’ve held those changes as well, through education. I used to be a youth worker back in the back in the ’80s. [01:57:00] I’ve always been an activist in one way or another. And I was the executive director of one of Chicago’s prominent theater companies called Latino Chicago Theatre Company. We used to own a beautiful theater called The Firehouse on North Avenue and Damen, which was a firehouse. And within that time, I was also getting involved in poetry. I found my calling as an artist, which is -- I’m a poet. I today I can say I’m a poet without feeling like I’m lying or that I’m -- I practice what I do and 56 �there’s a place in the Near North Side called Weeds. It’s a little bar called Weeds where I’ve been hosting a poetry venue for the past 27 years, and Cha-cha has been graceful enough to come down and see [01:58:00] us on Monday nights. Through the theater and through the poetry venue we have had people like Guillermo Gómez-Peña who have come through. Bacha, another excellent, excellent poet. Patricia Smith, who is a wonderful African-American poet. Luis Rodriguez, who is the founder of Tia Chucha Press and he was a great activist right now throughout the Southwest in regards to the people’s struggles. So Weeds, it has been a portal for many poets to do their work and move on. I like to think of myself as the doorkeeper, you know, (laughter) as a host [01:59:00] and so... JJ: Talking about hosts, you also hosted our 40th anniversary. GG: Oh yeah, I was gonna mention that. Just to kind of conclude with this, actually, Cha-cha asked me to be the host and master of ceremonies for the 40th anniversary of the Young Lords. And that was one beautiful and hectic, you know, six-and-a-half-hour day, I think it was. Black Panther leadership, Young Lords leadership from New York, from Chicago, from Miami, from -- it was one of the most wonderful experiences, and I’m still waiting for a for a tape. (laughter) And I thank Cha-cha for asking me to do to be that host. It was a tremendous, tremendous day in which music, words, leaders from all over the place [02:00:00] congregated and celebrated the Young Lords and Cha-cha Jiménez. (Spanish) [02:00:09] JJ: (Spanish) [02:00:11] I appreciate -- 57 �END OF VIDEO FILE 58 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f8d1f1935fa89cc42ac39fde2b815f2.mp4 a2b97d9f1acc210e3dd11075f18c7f87 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Gregorio Gómez vídeo entrevista y biografía Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Puertorriqueños--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Gomez_Gregorio Title A name given to the resource Gregorio Gómez video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gómez, Gregorio Description An account of the resource Gregorio Gómez is known as the “G Man” at one of Chicago’s longest running underground poetry venues, “Weeds,” at 1515 North Dayton Street. Opened in 1964, “Weeds” still serves the Lincoln Park neighborhood; the building has existed there since 1928. Today “Weeds” is known as “the neighborhood bar without a neighborhood.” In the 1980s, prior to the Harold Washington campaign, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez organized a reorganizing event at “Weeds.” It was a small party reunion and the place was packed. The purpose was to remember the Young Lords’ work and the Puerto Ricans who were displaced from Lincoln Park. Mr. Jiménez was assisted by Iris (Martha) Ramos, who, before the Young Lords were political, was one of three different presidents of the Young Lordettes. Ms. Ramos had previously been married to Benny Pérez, one of the original Young Lords club founders, who also turned political when the Young Lords became a human rights movement on September 23, 1968. She was also the sister of Manuel Ramos who was a Young Lord killed by off duty policeman James Lamb on May 3, 1969. Mr. Gómez emigrated from Vera Cruz, Mexico to Chicago in 1963. And he has been in the poetry community for nearly three decades. He has been the Managing Director of the Latino Chicago Theatre Company, which has been in the forefront of theatre and arts in Wicker Park. Mr. Gómez’s work has been published and recorded in numerous venues, including Stray Bullets: A Celebration of Chicago Saloon Poetry (1991) and Poetry for Peace Anthology, published by the Peace Museum of Chicago. In 1986, White Panther Party Minister of Information, Bob “Righteous” Rudnick, now deceased, approached the owner of “Weeds,” Sergio Mayora, about staging “Poetry Slams.”. Soon after that Mr. Gómez started to MC. Some of the patrons are a mix of newcomers and old timers, a few white pacifists and anarchists, some revolutionaries, primarily Blacks and Latinos. Early poets who presented their work at “Weeds” includes Chris “Man Defender” Chandler, “Sultry” Sue McDonald, and Susie “Mellow” Greenspan. Poet and Young Lord Alfredo Matias is a regular at “Weeds,” along with Sergio Mayora who always recites his two poems, and Mr. Gómez himself. As Mr. Gómez reiterates, “I stand for hundreds of Poets who will never be famous.” Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-08-23 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/08dbe21fb02677d03ca275a18af4552e.pdf 077c0e2c72e9c98c1556be93f6affd6a PDF Text Text Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project Norma Gonzalez Buenrostro Interview Total Time – (8:25) Self interview, May 18, 2016. Background • Norma grew up in Holland, Michigan • She lived there for fifteen years until her father was deported o Some family in Oceana County took her and her older sister in o Her family is Maria and Ramon Rosas, who own La Probadita, a Mexican store in downtown Hart o The Mexican store plays a big part in her life Vivid Childhood Memory – (1:24) • Going to school and coming home with her report cards was one of the biggest things her parents instilled in her Parents and Family – (1:45) • Norma’s parents are originally from Michoacán • They came to the United States in 1999 with Norma and her brother and sister • Her mother had two more children once in Holland • The family never worked as migrants or pickers o Her dad found a job as a factory worker o But Norma was not sheltered about the blueberry picking process in Holland Agriculture in Oceana – (2:23) • When she moved to Hart, it was an eye-opener of how big the agriculture business was there o It’s really common for any Hispanic-looking person to be asked if they were going to stay year-round because most of them come and go 1 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department o When she went to Hart High School, she was asked if she was going to go there all year, and Norma was shocked o She was not exposed to the fact that most Hispanic students leave before the winter and come back sometime in the spring Reflections on Oceana County – (3:39) • When Norma first came to Oceana County, she thought it was a small and very boring place with nothing to do • She started to find things to do and realized how vast the community really is and how many people there are to meet • Norma volunteered a lot with the Hart Main Street Program, with the Oceana Hispanic Center, and with her church • Hart has been a good place for Norma’s growth, and she has been very successful there o She has grown financially through working for her aunt and uncle at the Mexican store o The store is impacted by the influx of migrants during the summers and the lack of migrants during the winters Migrants – (5:08) • Norma has never picked herself, but has heard that it is a very tiresome and humbling experience • She is not a migrant worker but is a Mexican immigrant o She feels somewhat like she doesn’t belong because the other Hispanics all seem to have experience with picking when she doesn’t • Her father used to tell them that he didn’t want his children to have to do that kind of work and that he wanted better for them • Norma has some family who work in the fields and in the factories with the crops o The weather and seasons play an important role in people’s jobs Future Thoughts – (7:27) • Norma hopes that more relationships are built between farmers and workers in the community • Many workers share stories at the Mexican store, and the stories are both good and bad o Norma hopes that community members will get along in the future, no matter if they are farmers or workers or residents 2 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9a8a5777f5ea89efd3271d86ca37c6b2.pdf 2aa83c89ebd2d1ab3b3d3501dda7c119 PDF Text Text Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Una comunidad que cultiva: El proyecto de la historia agrícola de Oceana Entrevista de Norma Gonzalez Buenrostro Tiempo total – (8:25) Antecedentes • Norma creció en Holland, Michigan • Vivió allí durante quince años, hasta que su padre fue deportado o Unos familiares vivían en el condado de Oceana, y Norma y su hermana mayor fueron a vivir con ellos o Se llaman Maria y Ramon Rosas, quienes poseen La Probadita, una tienda mexicana en el centro de Hart o La tienda mexicana tiene gran importancia en la vida de Norma Recuerdo vívido de su niñez – (1:24) • Sus padres le inculcaron el valor de la educación y de recibir buenas notas Padres y familia – (1:45) • Originalmente los padres de Norma son de Michoacán • Vinieron a los Estados Unidos en 1999 con Norma y su hermano y hermana • Su madre tuvo dos niños más en Holland • La familia nunca trabajó como trabajadores migrantes o Su padre encontró trabajo como trabajador de fábrica o Sin embargo, Norma sabía del proceso de recoger arándanos en Holland La agricultura en Oceana – (2:23) • Cuando Norma se mudó a Hart, se dio cuenta de la magnitud de la agricultura allí o Es muy común que se le pregunta a cualquier persona que parece ser hispana si va a quedarse allí todo el año, porque la mayoría de los hispanos va y viene o Cuando asistió a Hart High School, se le preguntaba a Norma si iba a quedarse allí todo el año, y eso le sorprendió 1 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department o Norma no sabía que la mayoría de los estudiantes hispanos se va antes del invierno y regresa durante la primavera Reflexiones del condado de Oceana – (3:39) • Cuando Norma llegó por primera vez al condado de Oceana, pensaba que era un lugar pequeño y muy aburrido sin nada que hacer • Empezó a encontrar cosas que hacer y se dio cuenta de que la comunidad es muy grande y que hay mucha gente que se puede conocer • Norma ha sido voluntaria para Hart Main Street Program, el Centro Hispano de Oceana, y su iglesia • Hart ha sido un buen lugar en cuanto al desarrollo de Norma, y ella ha tenido mucho éxito allá o Ella ha crecido financieramente por medio de trabajar para su tía y tío en la tienda mexicana o La llegada de los trabajadores migrantes durante el verano y su salida durante el invierno afecta a la tienda Los migrantes – (5:08) • Norma nunca ha sido trabajadora migrante pero se ha enterado de que es una experiencia fatigante y de humildad • Ella no es trabajadora migrante pero es inmigrante mexicana o Siente de alguna manera que no encaja con los otros hispanos porque todos parecen tener experiencia con la cosecha y Norma no tiene esa experiencia • Su padre solía decirles que no quería que sus hijos tuvieran que hacer este tipo de trabajo porque deseaba un futuro mejor para ellos • Norma tiene algunos familiares que trabajan con los cultivos en los campos y en las fábricas o El clima y las estaciones tienen un papel importante en los trabajos de la gente Pensamientos futuros – (7:27) • Norma espera que se desarrollen más relaciones entre los agricultores y los trabajadores en la comunidad • Muchos trabajadores comparten historias en la tienda mexicana, y hay historias buenas y malas 2 �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department o Norma desea que los miembros de la comunidad se lleven bien en el futuro, sin importar si son agricultores o trabajadores o residentes 3 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22765b8131f156026895b2242b72bf29.mp3 37fbb53ed931dc8bce5ab7ef2156d045 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shell-Weiss, Melanie Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Oceana County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society Relation A related resource Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Image Sound recording Language A language of the resource eng spa Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Subject The topic of the resource Oceana County (Mich.) Hart (Mich.) Shelby (Mich.) Farms Farmers Migrant agricultural laborers Hispanic Americans Account books Diaries Oral history Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Gonzalez, Norma Buenostro (entrevista de audio y resumen) Descripción Spanish language Description entry Entrevista autograbada por Norma Gonzalez Buenrostro, Mayo 18, 2016. Los padres de Norma son de Michoacán, México. Su familia vino a los Estados Unidos en 1999, y ella creció en Holland, Michigan. Luego, Norma y su hermana mayor se mudaron al condado de Oceana para vivir con su tía y tío, quienes tienen una tienda llamada La Probadita que está ubicada en el centro de Hart. Como la familia de Norma nunca trabajó como trabajadores migrantes mientras crecía, le asombró aprender de la enormidad de la agricultura en Hart. Norma ha sido voluntaria para Hart Main Street Program, el Centro Hispano de Oceana, y su iglesia. Espera que se desarrollen más relaciones positivas entre los agricultores y los trabajadores en el futuro. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Holland (Mich.) Deportado La Probadita Tienda mexicana Migrantes Fábrica Hart Main Street Program El Centro Hispano de Oceana Inmigrante Hispano Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06_Gonzalez_Buenrostro_Norma Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gonzalez, Norma Buenostro Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-05-18 Title A name given to the resource Gonzalez, Norma Buenostro (audio interview and summary) Description An account of the resource Self-recorded interview by Norma Buenrostro Gonzalez, May 18, 2016. Norma’s parents are originally from Michoacán, Mexico. Her family came to the United States in 1999, and she grew up in Holland, Michigan. Later, Norma and her older sister moved to Oceana County to live with their aunt and uncle, who own a Mexican store named La Probadita in downtown Hart. As Norma’s family never worked as migrants or pickers while she grew up, she was astonished by how big the agricultural business was in Hart. Norma has spent time volunteering with the Hart Main Street Program, the Oceana Hispanic Center, and her church. She hopes to see more positive relationships built between farmers and workers in the future. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Shell-Weiss, Melanie (director) Subject The topic of the resource Holland (Mich.) Deported La Probadita Mexican store Migrants Factory Hart Main Street Program Oceana Hispanic Center Immigrant Hispanic Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5b5d22dc26c2fbfc1f04b2c9c9be015e.mp4 ee4168af04c62dd0f6f4e20801ab5c0c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1347cc0f88a4515061460794edcae9e5.pdf fe852a4d57ca8a8fd8f1694c241bbd39 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Morris Gooch (23:05) (00:10) Background Information • • • • • • • Morris was born in Monroe, Michigan in 1951 His father was a mechanic and his mother was a housewife He had seven siblings Morris had been working full time for a company making shipping panels before joining the service He had two brothers in the Army who both fought in Vietnam and his father fought in World War II and Korea Morris enlisted because of his family history and he felt that it was the patriotic thing to do He thought that the Navy would give him more opportunity (2:15) Boot Camp • • • Morris had been prepared for boot camp because of his family upbringing He became a torpedo man and went to 33 different schools during his military career Morris loved the Navy and stayed in for 13 years (3:30) Vietnam • • • • • Morris worked on submarines located off the coast of South Carolina, Spain, Hawaii, and Guam They were on patrols, overhauling ship yards, and launching torpedoes and missiles Each patrol lasted about 100 days Morris attempted to fail one of his classes once so that he could get sent to Vietnam and be on the ground fighting, but he got caught He went into the Navy as a seaman apprentice and left as an E-7 petty officer (7:50) Average Days on the Ship • • • • It was difficult for everyone to keep in touch with their friends and family Families were allowed to send a “family gram” once a month and it could only be 15 words long The men were not able to respond to their families The men played cards a lot, exercised, and Morris learned to embroider �• When they were in port they played football, went scuba diving, sky diving, mud sliding, off-roading, and went hunting (9:50) Vietnam War Ends • • • • • Morris was in Guam at the time on guard duty when he heard the news Many evacuees from Vietnam came to live in Guam The time was very hectic and difficult to deal with Morris discovered that he had a problem with alcohol and entered the rehabilitation program with the Navy Once he had completed the program, he became the Navy Alcohol Safety Action Program Instructor (13:15) Civilian Life • • • It was not difficult for Morris to adjust back to civilian life He worked for a company that supported the military and he was a field engineer The company dealt with submarine construction (16:00) Reflections • • Morris saw America at its worst after Vietnam and the way that civilians treated the men in the service His older brother was a marine in the Vietnam and came back emotionally and mentally injured � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gooch, Morris (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gooch, Morris Description An account of the resource Morris Gooch was born in Monroe, Michigan in 1951. He enlisted in the Navy during the American war with Vietnam because he felt that it was the patriotic thing to do. While in the service, Morris worked as a torpedo man traveling to South Carolina, Spain, Hawaii, and Guam. Morris remained in the Navy for 13 years and ended up as a Navy Alcohol Safety Action Program Instructor. After his time in the service, Morris began working as a field engineer for a company that dealt with submarine construction. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Stearns, Sam (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoochM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1f42e45d0f331afba8c1842cc182f0ca.mp4 484445bfd402ebf172db0ff8c124eaa9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9e5d4574cc0c08b488f421d5416933c8.pdf a9af87cc71c5a80128f6b3d1e6d889d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee name: David Good Length of Interview: 34 minutes Pre-Enlistment (00:15) • Childhood (00:17) o Briefly mentions that he served in the Navy aboard the USS Alaska in the Pacific as a 1st class petty officer and technician. (00:43) o Good was born on February 21st, 1925 and was born and raised in Caledonia, Michigan. (01:04) • Education (01:09) ƒ He graduated from Caledonia High School. (01:12) ƒ The day Pearl Harbor was attacked he mentions that he was either in school or working in his father’s garage when it happened. (01:26) ƒ While still in high school at age 18 he signed up for the military draft. (01:45) Enlistment/Training (02:17) • Why he joined (02:18) o Good went to Detroit, Michigan where he took a round of physical tests and was selected like many others for Navy service. (02:36) • Boot camp (02:48) o Started his military service on December 24th, 1943 and started basic training at Great Lakes, Illinois. (03:04) o Describes in some detail what a typical day in boot camp looked like. (03:15) o Briefly describes his instructors in some detail. (04:12) • Where he went after boot camp and what company he served with (05:05) �o Attended electronic school at a junior college in Chicago, Illinois for a month months. (05:16) o Afterwards he attended Texas A&M College for 3 months all the while training for electronics’ school. (05:30) o He then went to Treasure Island, an island outside of San Francisco Bay for the final phase of his training and was here for 5 months. (05:46) o After basic training, Good took a 2 week leave to visit home. (06:09) Active Duty (06:16) • Campaign Background (06:45) o Upon his return to duty, Good boarded a transport ship to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii where they stayed for about a week. (06:23) o Boarded another ship which took him to the war zone. (06:36) • Living conditions aboard ship (06:54) o While aboard ship as an electrical technician his ship responsibilities with others from his unit included taking care of the surface radar air surface radar. (07:05) o Good describes what the number of ships and what types of ships were found while in a task group and that outside a task group were the destroyers supported by U.S. submarines. (07:50) o Their job entailed protecting the aircraft carriers as they came in. (08:13) Usually they would be out of port for long periods. His job also entailed like mentioned before the maintenance of radar operations. (09:11) o Briefly describes what medals he was awarded after the war. (10:03) o Good kept in contact with his family on a weekly basis by letter. All of his letters were censored, so that if he mentioned anything about where they were or what they were doing it was taken out of his letters. (10:47) o Briefly describes the type of food he and others were able to eat or what supplies were always coming aboard whenever they were at a port to resupply. (11:45) Sometimes their task force would go 50 miles or more to rendezvous with their supply ships to restock. (12:45) o During one instance, when the task force was under fire from Japanese cruisers everyone would go into something called General Quarters. (14:24) �o For entertainment, military personnel could go to the store and buy food or play cards. For him he didn’t have much time for entertainment. (15:32) o Upon completing his service in the Pacific he returned home upon which time he had a 30 day leave in which he spent getting reacquainted with old friends. (17:30) • China (18:15) o After the war, Good visited Tsingtao, China where he describes what Chinese life and culture were like. (18:20) o Wasn’t allowed to take any pictures while he was there. (19:07) o The day the war ended the USS Alaska had been ordered to Tsingtao to secure the place. The U.S. Marines landed and secured the city upon which time Good and others were able to go in. while there, the Marines found a stockpile of Japanese rifles with bayonets which they confiscated and he mentions receiving one. (21:16) After the Service (22:22) • Adjusting to Home (22:32) o Upon being discharged, he spent the first couple of days relaxing by going deer hunting and finding out what was going on at his local store. (23:22) o Went back to college for the next 2 to 3 years attending the University of Michigan and Davenport University. Afterwards he worked with his dad. (24:02) o Describes several stories with close friends after his time in the service. (24:34) • Reflection (26:02) o Briefly describes the impact that WWII had on other wars later on. Also mentions how his service impacted himself and what he learned from the experience. (26:13) • Other stories (27:20) o Describes one instance in action in which the Japanese were firing on them and while operating the radar Good could tell what was going on based on what he saw through the radar. (28:04) o During another instance, some Japanese airplanes would stay about a mile out of range of their General Quarter stations. (28:51) �o During an invasion of an island, the big ships would fire their 16 in. diameter guns and soften up the beaches so the Marines and Army could go in. (30:28) In addition to this, Good describes what landing procedures for the landing of planes entailed. (31:10) o For Good the most important event of WWII was the dropping of the atomic bomb. (32:03) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Good, David (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Good, David Description An account of the resource David Good is a World War II veteran who served with in the U.S. Navy from 1943 to 1946. In this account, Good discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and basic training. He discusses his work as an electronic technician aboard the USS Alaska at sea in the Pacific. He also covers the ship's visit to Tsingtao, China, after the Japanese surrender. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Nietling, Ashley (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-12-09 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoodD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87f88291b83ac519bcd902c793fd93f6.pdf fccd3431f2272db0ae0479e5baf888ba PDF Text Text Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility PFAS is a group of chemicals known scientifically as perfluoroalkyl substances. Even more concerning, according to the CDC, is there are more than 9,000 different types. These include PFAS, PFOS, PFOA, and others. PFAS chemicals are incredibly stable both chemically and thermally. These are forever chemicals, meaning they bio-accumulate, bio-magnify, and will not degrade. These substances are in everything from carpet, furniture, camping gear, makeup, non-stick cookware, firefighting foams, fabric, and firefighting gear. These chemicals are in every living organism and virtually every body of water. As a 14-year Fire Lieutenant, I have been heavily exposed to PFAS. Here is my story. In May 2020, my wife and I thought our dream of having a family was about to come to fruition. A short time later, we quickly realized that wasn’t the case. My wife woke me in the middle of the night, stating that she had intense abdominal pain, severe cramping, and heavy bleeding. She was 10 days late, but never showed a positive pregnancy test. She informed me she thought she was having a miscarriage. Unfortunately, all this was taking place during a global pandemic. We immediately called my wife’s OB to be told that they weren’t accepting patients. After many phone calls, her doctor finally agreed to see her. Initially, the focus was on my wife. After many invasive and humiliating tests, we were surprised to learn that no abnormalities were found. We never found out whether or not she had a miscarriage. The focus quickly turned to me. I immediately referred to EVMS, where multiple blood tests and semen analyses were ordered. Ultimately the results from those tests were heartbreaking. They found no sperm and noted abnormal hormone test results. What followed still seems like a blur. First, there was a brain MRI. The results from the brain MRI came back and showed a tiny benign tumor on my pituitary gland. The tumor was ultimately ruled out as an issue and deemed not a concern — next, more rounds of bloodwork. Then, genetic testing is followed by more physical exams. No abnormalities were noted during my genetic testing, and no deletions were reported from my chromosomes. I then underwent hormone therapy via Clomid to increase my testosterone. I’m still recovering from what Clomid did to my body. I seemingly gained 60lbs overnight and always felt like I wanted to crawl out of my skin. My urologist then suggested doing a testicular biopsy. The testicular biopsy was scheduled for December 3, 2020. That biopsy would serve two functions, to check for testicular cancer and look for any sperm residing in my testicles. Unfortunately, again the results were not what we hoped. While they found no cancer, they also found no sperm. They diagnosed me with Sertoli-Cell Only Syndrome, NonObstructive Azoospermia with an unknown cause. Following that procedure, my wife and I discussed getting a second opinion at VCU Health. Our initial consultation was with Dr. Smith-Harrison in January 2021. He felt that he might still find sperm by doing a procedure called Microsurgical Testicular Sperm Extraction (micro-TESE). Following that consultation, I was placed on chemo. The goal of chemo was to control hormones my body was overproducing, specifically Estradiol. Chemo was single handily one of the worst experiences of my life. To this day, I deal with random bouts of hives, forgetfulness (chemobrain), and chemo rash. March 30, 2021, I had the micro-TESE surgery, and once again, the results were negative. While heartbroken and frustrated, my wife and I vowed to press forward. Dr. Smith- Harrison referred us to VCU endocrinology. My first appointment with Dr. Madan �Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility was on April 20, 2021. The initial meeting again involved more blood work. The blood work was for thyroid, hemoglobin, and additional hormone testing. No abnormalities were noted. In May 2021, I was placed on testosterone replacement therapy. One definite is I will have to be frequently screened for testicular cancer for the rest of my life. The testicular cancer screening will occur twice a year. By all accounts, Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome is the precursor to testicular cancer. Having NOA is in 5% of males in the world. Having NOA along with Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome resides in 1% of males globally. Have Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome and NOA with an unknown etiology only occurs in 0.5% of all males globally. At the end of May 2021, I received a small piece of information that was significant. My liver enzymes were shit. The results indicated borderline non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. As a curious person, I went back in my records to see if the result replicated or if it was just due to the chemo. Come to find out, the first poor liver enzyme test I received was in 2019! Unfortunately, I never heard a word about looking into it. In June of 2021, I participated in the 2021 National Firefighter Cancer Symposium when Dr. Angela Slitt began to present. A few minutes into her presentation, a slide detailed the relationship between liver enzymes and PFAS. At that moment, a light bulb clicked. I rushed to my computer and immediately sent a screenshot of the slide to VCU with my liver enzyme report attached. Both the doctors noted the significance of the findings and are actively researching. I received two more vital pieces of information in June. First, Dr. Graham Peaslee notified us my 2018 gear tested positive for PFAS. My station wear did not. However, it did contain brominated flame retardants (banned since 2004) and Benzene, a known carcinogen. The combination of Brominated FR and Benzene mirrors the effects of PFAS on the human body. Unfortunately, for my testicles, they were given a high dose of toxic chemicals for 33% of the year, every year, for 14 years. Let that sink in. Now one more test to go…PFAS. This test will not confirm whether or not PFAS is in my blood; we already know it’s there. This test will indicate how much. On June 26, 2021 at 0530 in the morning I received the results. Keep in mind there are 9252 PFAS. I was tested on 6. I popped positive on 4. The highest were PFOS and PFHxS. It is important to note; I have kept two pieces of information out. One question asked at EVMS, Urology of Virginia, VCU Urology, and VCU Endocrinology was whether or not I have been exposed to any toxic chemicals. The answer I provided was yes. This question alone started us down a rabbit hole my family never imagined. We began researching firefighter fertility, firefighter endocrine issues, and firefighter testicular cancer. That research led me to have conversations with Diane and Lt. Paul Cotter (who is mentioned in a NY Times article), Captain Sean Mitchell from Nantucket Fire (IAFF Resolution 28), IAFF President Ed Kelly, Dr. Graham Peaslee of Notre Dame, Lt. Neal Sinatro from West Hartford, Ct, Dr. Madan at Virginia Commonwealth University, and Dr. Smith- Harrison at Virginia Commonwealth University regarding firefighter fertility research. I have reached out to many others in hopes of finding answers and getting the word out. In a profession where we encounter many hazards, we should not worry about the consequences of donning our turnout gear and putting on our station uniforms laced with chemicals. The second piece of information is a report from Dupont scientists. Lewis (2005) stated, “Beginning in 1992, scientists began to publish papers addressing how PFOA causes testicular tumors and other harmful effects on the male reproductive tract. First, they found that PFOA increases blood levels of Estradiol in male rats” (P. 29). Scientists �Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility also found males who have been exposed to PFOA and PFAS having difficulty regulating testosterone. Consequently, my body has yet to regulate both of these hormones, verified with blood testing, Clomid, and chemo (Lewis, 2005). As a society, we must sound the alarm. Our blind trust in chemical companies and the EPA has led to arguably one of the worst environmental catastrophes known to humankind. PFAS is in everything, everyone, and has polluted every one of our waterways. Only recently has this began to garner attention. In June 2021, articles have been released detailing PFAS is in newborns, every citizen of the US, sparkling water, fish, makeup, and our waterways. We must hold the companies that have polluted our country responsible. Or this story will become all too familiar. Folks, we need to be better. Go to the DOCTOR! Trust me; I was that guy who didn’t want to go. I thought it was all BS, and I was fine. I wasn’t okay. I don’t know who out there needs to read this. But trust me, there is no shame. Talk about it. Write about it. Just get it off your chest. You are not alone. One Last thing, Our dream of having a family is still very much alive. We are actively navigating this next chapter and look forward to what the future has in store. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goodman, Bryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-17 Title A name given to the resource Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility Description An account of the resource Personal essay by Bryan Goodman discussing the impact of PFAS on his family and fertility. Subject The topic of the resource Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91aa62f3f40bcc75310a5834ebdb59a6.mp4 2e265651c6d80f3372956ffafbb2ff80 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6642921ba39e3fa84227de5b861be8cd.pdf 5e992f76c8c18166876153794fc02be4 PDF Text Text Goodman, Donald Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Donald Goodman Length of Interview: (1:12:55) Interviewed by: Koty Leroy Rollins Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman Interviewer: “Hello this is a joint production between the Grand Valley State Veterans History Program, WK T.V voices, and the U.S.S Silversides Museum. My name is Koty Leroy Rollins and I’m here with Donald Goodman of Muskegon, Michigan. So let’s start off early I guess, your childhood, what made you sort of want to join the military?” Well I not only remember Pearl Harbor, I remember when Hitler invaded Poland but I didn’t want to join then I was only six years old then but as far as– I grew up in World War II and I had an uncle who went in but even then I didn’t have any enormous desire to go in. (1:18) I went to school to graduate– Oh, if I can wander from that for a minute– I’m gonna– Interviewer: “That’s okay, go ahead.” I was going to say my overall impression in the Army, when I go see people now and I wear my shirt or I wear the hat and they say “Thank you for your service.” I want to say “Thank you for your Army.” Because the Army did far more for me than I ever did for it and when I joined– Why did I join? You know I’m not even sure why I joined, the Korean war started in summer of 1950, I graduated from high school in 1949 and I went on to Navy Pier which is the University of Illinois, Chicago branch. I was there that was supposed to be a two year college I actually got three years out of it, in the summer I was working in a chemical factory, in the control lab of a chemical factory otherwise I had been working, I’ve been working since I was about 12. So I was going to finish– I was ready to join the Air Force when I was just ready to turn 20 in 1950 and I’d gone there to the Air Force, signed the papers, ready to leave the next week, got appendicitis. They took the appendix and then the Air Force came and said “Where’s little �Goodman, Donald Donnie?” “Well just had the appendix–” “Well we don’t want him for six months.” Said “Okay.” So I thought I might as well go for another semester, amazingly just then in January on my birthday I met this cute little gal, I said “You know I can’t go in the military, I might as well finish up my third year.” And in the meantime– This is in Chicago Heights, Illinois and she was from Chicago, so we dated and through that winter, that was the first part of 1952 and I got to thinking you know the Air Force is four years and the Army’s only two. So I walked into the Army and it wasn’t hard for them to talk me into it, so I joined, left, and then in June the Air Force came and knocked on my door again and my mother was there and they said, you know “Does Donnie want to come out and play?” And well no, she said “He’s in the Army.” They said “Well we’re not gonna go and get him.” As far as why did I join I think I joined, well for one thing I didn’t want to waste any more money for college, it was my money, it was my dad’s money but also because everybody’s gone. My mother said “Do you wanna have a going away party?” I said “Who would come? Everybody I know, Skerwanski’s in the Air Force, Van Buskert’s in the Army, Otto Bomberg is in the Air Force.” Everybody I could name was gone and they either dodged the draft by enlisting in something or else they were drafted. So I went in– Interviewer: “Okay, so–” (4:54) But so I went in and to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri and that’s where I went through basic training, I said in the beginning that I owe the Army much more than anybody owes me, if you went through my high school yearbook, end of high school– After four years, let’s see what did I do? Was I on the football team? Well not likely. Was I in basketball? No, in fact the only thing behind my name after four years, I belong to the auto bond club and I wrote for the college– Or for the high school newspaper. If you looked at what they did when I finished 40 years of teaching I was– I had been chief negotiator, contract negotiator for year after year after year for two different schools, for a public school system and for the college, I was grievance chairman over and over, they elected me or appointed, whatever they did, the distinguished faculty and as a matter of fact in 75 years of college they had only bestowed that on like six other people, I think I was number seven and Jack Branch was number eight. So why? Because the Army, they helped me find who I was and they did it, well the way they usually do things. When I got in in �Goodman, Donald the beginning for some reason I had it in my mind I’m gonna teach you people how to soldier, although I didn’t, I knew how to shoot a rifle that’s all and I thought “I am gonna be the best soldier.” At the end of 16 weeks of basic with eight weeks infantry and eight weeks engineering, the training sergeants picked out four trainees to compete for best trainee, I had no idea they were looking at me. So there I was, but I never made better than four so I thought later, I really ought to have a pin made that says “I’m number four!” Out of 250 that wasn’t bad. Interviewer: “That’s pretty high.” So they– There’s one thing that was surprise– If you look at the pictures and find pictures of our outfits this is 1952, they look totally different from anything four years before or in World War II because when Truman took over– Truman became president in 1945 April when FDR died and in 1948 he integrated the Army’s– All of the armed forces, so you see pictures of all these trainees together in the barracks, scrubbing down and doing all that and there’s blacks all over the place, they were coloreds in those days but when I got on permanent duty, permanent cadre as a company clerk, we had some strange here and there. (8:27) Some of the southerners “I aint taking a shower with him.” Or “I ain’t sleeping next to him.” You wanna bet? They– So some of them had a hard bringing up to get used to that. Anyway in basic training there was one night that kind of stuck– It does stick in my mind and I can’t imagine how some of these guys underwent real combat, in this basic training thing what we did we were– It was supposed to be a commando raid and we were supposed to cross the big piney and take a hill. Well we got eight blanks in our M-1s and we’re supposed to be quietly paddling these boats that held about a dozen guys across the river and then sneak up the hill side and not bother– Of course the first person to– First boat made enough noise that the machine guns up on top were going full blast by the time we got there and you were supposed to push this boat, it held about ten people– Ten guys, push it out into the water and then pile in and paddle across, we had no training in paddling, there was no instruction on paddling at all, we were supposed there, land the boat, they had one person in charge of piloting– In charge of the boat to steer it I guess and he was going to stay with the boat and we were supposed to run up this hill and shoot eight shots to show our good intentions and then turn around and run back and get in the same boat. Well you got in any boat you could, after that– To make it more realistic they were using quarter pound blocks of nitrous �Goodman, Donald starch and they would cap the fuse, and fuses work well even under the water, this is like– Probably has the same speed as dynamite, I don’t know maybe 13,000, 13,000 feet per second. Anyway it was not as fun– Anyway these were little blocks, they looked like– Kind of looked like a stick of butter and they– Then they throw it, they were out there in the water and go boom! Whoosh! And boom! Whoosh! All around and with the machine guns up there [machine gun noises] and all the noise and so we heard boom! Whoosh! Boom! Whoosh! And then we heard Womp! And what was that, well it seems the boat in front of us, that’s supposed to cross in front of us, the guys had hauled it out into the water, piled in but they piled in too soon and it went down and dragged on the river bottom and so they could– Half of them jumped out and tried to pull it, the commanding– The sergeant who was running these things and throwing the nitrous starch in the water he grabbed them and pulled them and they turned the boat so it was all cockamamie– Yeah that’s what it sounded like. Anyway– I didn’t know we had sound effects here. They got turned around and they’re paddling, some are paddling this side and that side and I think some were paddling in the air and they twisted around and went right over one of those charges. Interviewer: “Oh no.” (12:00) So instead of boom! Whoosh! It womp! Cause it blew the bottom out, and there they are screaming cause I imagine some of them had broken legs by that time, and the motor is there we can see it not that far ahead of us, floating, twisting around, and they’re screaming cause they’re hurt and some of them are still paddling and the boat is sinking because it’s got a big hole blown in it and I just remember the insanity. Oh I know we were gonna stop and help them and the sergeant is yelling to us “You’re on a mission, you don’t stop you’re on a mission!” So the whole insanity of the reality of the high explosives and the reality of these guys hurt and the insanity of the shots, blanks. It’s stuck in my mind, I still think of it, I can’t imagine what these guys who have been through real combat are like because that’s the one night in basic training I remember. Interviewer: “They didn’t–” �Goodman, Donald So I don’t– Oh we got back, we went up and shot our eight and [gun noises] and then came back and when we got back they were already there was an officer standing on top of some platform and he was saying “We have never had an accident in this operation before.” But they did, people did get hurt, they– And one thing that ticked me off about the Korean– The records of the Korean War, they tell you– And I don’t want to downplay Vietnam, Vietnam they said they had killed 58,000, in the Korean war they’re divided, they’re still arguing about how many got killed in accidents and maneuvers. They say “Yeah 36,000 got killed in Korea.” But there’s arguments about whether there was actually 18,000 killed in maneuvers. I, as company clerk, I can’t remember ever filling out a death certificate, I sent a lot of people to the hospital mostly with ammonia but I ran into a couple of other accidents when I was a company clerk, they bring people in. Oh my God, a friend of ours had the craziest kind of accident imaginable, he must have been one of the last people who suffered from a poison gas. So what had happened was this, he was– Ellsworth was his name, great guy, he lived– Later on when Betty and I were living on the coast, I got married in the Army, and we– I think his trailer was right down from ours, anyway or poor Dan Ellsworth, he’d been through Korea and he has a number of medals, he wanted to make– Wanted to make the Army a career, fine. (14:53) Then he went to skip troops and learned to ski, and then he came to– They shipped him to Fort Leonard Wood, God knows why, and okay he wanted to be in the training part and wanted to teach, and they put him in CBR, chemical, biological and radiological training. Okay, we had to go– Besides going through the gas chamber, tear gas chamber which everybody remembers real well, they also took the trainees and ran them through light concentrations of other poison gas and I think a phosgene and mustard and I don’t know what other one. Okay, his job was to set one of these off, he had a tomb of– And I think it was Phosgene, I’m not sure, and then he had two blasting caps taped to it and they were wired to each other and then the long wires– And I think they were maybe 15 feet long and he was supposed to put that out there where– Set it off and as soon as– While the stuff was still in the air they’d run the trainees through this so they could smell poison gas and see what it was like. He pulled the shunt on the caps, the– Do you know anything about explosives? Interviewer: “Not much.” �Goodman, Donald Okay they’ve got the blasting– Got a blasting cap, looks like about half of a wooden pencil, then it got– And that’s a high explosive and when you– And what– And it’s got two wires and of course the wire when electricity comes it will spark and set off the pin and so you should never pull that shunt until you’re just about ready. Well he was in a hurry and he was carrying this tube of poison gas with two blasting caps, fortunately he wasn’t pinching it he was just holding it lightly, he pulled the shunt and walked across the field and must have picked up static electricity because all of a sudden bam! There he is with his fingers blown back and flopping and he squatted down then and actually sat on his heel, which was smeared with mustard gas that had been there from whatever the last one was. So he went into the hospital as a victim of poison gas and they had to fix his– Try and save his fingers, which they did, and then take care of this thing back here and every lieutenant around would come there and say “Half mass soldier, I want to see it, I’ve never seen a mustard gas blister.” So have to pull his skivvies down, and so I talked to him, went to visit him in the hospital and I said “Is that embarrassing?” “Nah.” He said “It could be but I like to shove my but in the face of those damned officers.” He said “I’m hoping for a major.” But he never got one. Interviewer: “The best out of a bad situation right?” (18:08) I never did know what happened because I got graduated, yeah I got discharged before. Interviewer: “So you were in Fort Leonard Wood from what dates?” From June 1952 to June 1954 and after basic they sent me to Company C’s headquarters, and I was like– The time they because the time they had me opening there I was a company clerk, their company clerk had been promoted to first sergeant, and then we got another first sergeant. What happens– I don’t know if you’ve talked to anybody in a training outfit but by the time you get through, with most training outfits the way they change personnel so fast, you should really read Catch-22 because if you read Catch-22 you find that the one who’s running the entire war is PFC Wintergreen and so much– So many of our outfits were run by the company clerk and the supply sergeant and that’s what happened, you wound up– Even if you only had one strike, you wound up taking on jobs, answering questions, filling out forms, signing form and in effect– �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “You were running it.” I looked at– With my first we had– But I had a really good company commander at first, then he got transferred to someplace else, then I can’t remember who followed up but we had– He had brought in this big World War II hero who was one nasty– So God he was mean and you could see he had ghost stripes, in other words he had been sergeant at one time and he was no more so he got busted for something and we– Captain Gollenstein got him another stripe, so he’s there, we always call him sergeant. He gave me stories of World War II like I don’t want this guy on my side but I don’t want him on the other side either and so he was– He’d come in drunk, really drunk, and the meet up troops– Meet up trainees, we got 250– When I got assigned there as company clerk we had 250 civilians every eight weeks and run them through, teach them infantry basics and how to salute and march and so on and then the next– Then we’d get– They’d be gone and we’d have the next bunch the next day and so I was processing a lot of that stuff but I remember this one sergeant, our first sergeant, and he was standing in front of me just like you’re right there and I was doing whatever and I look at him and he says “I hear you’re gonna testify against me at my court martial.” (21:20) I said “Those are my orders sergeant.” And he leaned forward and he said “Make it good I want to get out of this fucking Army anyway I can.” Well I didn’t have to tell them much, I could testify to his being AWOL, I could’ve cover it up, the AWOL I’d done that for people before but he didn’t want that. I didn’t have to say anything, the trainees that testified against him were enough, he got a less than honorable discharge and away he went, and he was replaced by a friend of mine who was a full time pistol shooter. He was on I don’t know how many teams and he was always gone so company clerk takes over his job, then the next– Then he was transferred someplace else, I forget who came in after he did, and then some place in there as I say we had– The Army was– All of the colored troop organizations were dissolved, they were spread out and reassigned and we got this one sergeant who had been– He might have been in World War II, anyway he was a full sergeant and he came in but he didn’t– What, not Gonzalez, Lee Gonzalez was the supply sergeant, and what he and I wanted was a company commander who just let us do things, let us take care of things, and as first sergeant it didn’t matter, that didn’t get into our way because we had a nice running. �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “Yeah, it was a smooth operation.” Yeah, it was going well and there was Sergeant– I don’t want to slip and tell his name, let me call him Jones. So Gonzalez, Lee Gonzalez was the supply sergeant he and I were close and he said, middle of summer, he said “You know where Jones is?” And I said “No I haven’t seen him, I mean they come and go and come and go.” And he said he’s over there in the captain’s office, sitting behind the stove, it’s a coal stove in the summer and he’s just sitting there with his hands folded and he’s looking off like that and then he’s looking over here, and that’s what he’s doing for a couple of hours at a time. Said “Well what do you think?” He said “Well you can try and talk to Cunningham.” Who was next door in battalion and he said “You know what are you gonna do? Call up the regiment and say ‘I think my first sergeant is crazy’ do you have any idea how many company clerks think their first sergeant is crazy, what’s it gonna– Is he bothering you?” “No.” “Well leave him then.” I said “What the heck?” He doesn’t need anything to be gone for hours and then he’d come back, he never did do– So but one time he, this was one of the scariest nights I had, he went on leave to East St. Louis and came back with a social disease after a while he discovered he had so he went in to the medics and talked to them. (25:00) While he was there he was explaining to the doctor exactly how the world operated and instead of how you think it is and so they just kind of kept him and the next thing we know well we’re getting orders that he’s being transferred to some hospital out east and we should box up his foot locker stuff and they’d come and store it someplace. We said “What about his car?” Because there was a number of times on Monday morning where I’d round up the jeeps and he couldn’t remember where he’d left his car and he’d have parked it God knows out in some rain in someplace and Leonard Wood is a big place and how he made it back I don’t know or where he spent the– But he’d be there Monday morning, couldn’t find his car. So I ask what about his car and they said they don’t know so somebody found it out there and stick– Yeah I don’t know, I called the motor and said winter was coming, I said “I don’t know what shape this thing is, it’s got no business being there so better tow it and take it to motor pool to store.” They have storage, so but that’s the end of it, check the end of that, and it was months later I was going to the movies and I came bouncing back in and the CQ– I had a– I was supposed to point people to BCQ, you know charge a quarter at night to be supposed to answer the one phone we had on the company, and he was sitting back there and he had this funny look on his face and I came up and I thought “What–” �Goodman, Donald And I could see from his eyes and he looked over “Oh well, Sergeant Jones!” There he was, full uniform, medals, all that “How are you doing?” Well what do you say, you know I did think “Yeah you were crazy, did they fix that or what?” You know. Interviewer: “That feels like not a very good opening line.” No it’s not the way to go. Interviewer: “You’re crazy, did they fix that?” I said “Oh!” Interviewer: “Did you escape?” Said “You’re back?” “Yeah.” But we got no paperwork he wasn’t back to us because by then we had a different– I had a different first sergeant who was well into booze and he was just as useless as anybody else which was fine as far as we’re concerned. (27:28) So [unintelligible] “Oh good to see you” And he said “Goodman you know what happened to my car?” I said “Yeah we finally found it out there.” He said “Where is it?” And I said “It’s in storage, bought it.” He said, I forget the order anyway he asked me “What’d you do?” I said “We had it towed back.” He said “How did you do that, wasn’t it locked up?” And I said “Yeah I had to break a window, broke my way in, unlocked it, had it towed away, and then we had– I had them drain the radiator and the battery there.” He said “Who broke the window?” “I broke it.” Because I’m not gonna lie and he stood up, patted me on the shoulder “You’re a good man Goodman.” And walked out the door. I was– Interviewer: “What a crazy individual. I guess you got–” Never know what happened to him, we gave– We had no paperwork, no way for me to check up on anything, why should I check up on his car, but that was one of the weirdest nights. Anyway when– Yeah, his successor was– Then we had, oh we had a first lieutenant who was just– �Goodman, Donald Screwed up one way or another. I got the phone call and the phone said, they said “You’re due for prisoner chase in company C.” “Okay, we need a name.” Well I’m tired of being in here anyway, said “Corporal–” I was corporal by then “Donald J. Goodman RN 1-6-4-1-5-6-0-9.” “Okay.” And didn’t think any more about it and then got the order and the company commander lieutenant there he– A couple of weeks he said “Goodman! You’re on prisoner chase.” I said “Geez how did that happen? But– Must’ve been random or something.” Okay so I was assigned, I was assigned and I can’t remember, I keep trying to remember this, memory doesn’t work all that– If there were three of us then we had to pick up five prisoners, if there was five of us then we had to pick up seven prisoners. I’m pretty sure that it was just three of us that what we had to do was take the train and wear class B uniform which was all dress, tie the whole bit but combat boots and of course we had to pick up pistols, we had to pick up our 45 Colts. Anway, so we went to– I didn’t know these other guys and two of us were corporals, the other one I forget what, so we got up there and I had already been read the orders for a prisoner chase from the same sort of thing. Go to Sheraton, pick up your prisoners, handcuff them, bring them back through Chicago and deliver them to such and such, takes two days okay. When we got there to check out our pistols in the ordinance they said “You guys are all qualified with a 45 aren’t you?” (30:55) No, nobody was, he said “Anybody ever shoot a 45?” I said “Yeah I’ve shot targets.” “Okay, you’re in charge.” “That’s good, I like that.” Because I had plans and they– So we got our pistols, can’t put your clip in until you get your prisoner, well we got our pistols and our handcuffs and we’re off– Oh. Interviewer: “Must be a boat.” Yeah we never had those down in Fort Leonard Wood. So we got out and I had all the chips for meals and the orders and the whole bit and my wife doesn’t like me to tell this story but I’ll tell it. So we were on the train going from St. Louis up to Chicago and I said “How’d you guys– I know they’re expecting us at Sheraton, how’d you like to spend the night in Chicago?” And they said “Can we do that?” And I said “Well I’m in charge, I say you can.” Never give a guy two stripes God knows what he’ll do with the power, we got there in Chicago to the Randolph Street Station and I said “We’ll have to find a place for you to stay and you gotta pay for it.” “Okay.” So in those days they had a monstrous Chicago telephone directory but the truth was for a guy in �Goodman, Donald uniform all he had to do was ask any cop “Hey is there a hotel I can stay at here a while?” So they decided– I think they asked a cop and they went to the YMCA and stayed there, said “Well– ” Said “I’m not staying there.” “Okay.” And I said “I’ll meet you tomorrow morning seven o’clock at the Randall Street Station we’ll take that up to Sheraton, pick up our prisoners, bring them back, walk them through the loop, and to change stations we had to walk from Randall Street Station to the Union Station, yeah and then catch that to St. Louis so I said “We gotta do something with these pistols, why don’t you check– They probably have a safe there at the Y, why don’t you just check them in there? Whatever you do, don’t get arrested, whatever you do don’t get drunk, no drinking.” “Okay, fine.” They said “Where are you going?” I said “Oh I know where I’m going.” Well nine four– I left them there and set off praying that they wouldn’t get drunk or arrested or into trouble there in Chicago while I took the I.C down to 63rd street I think and then took a trolley down to 85th cause I was going to 914 West 85th Street where this cute little gal that I married two months before was waiting. Mind you this is long before there’s any cell phones so everything we had arranged we’d done by writing or by plain telephone. (34:17) So that’s where I headed walking through Chicago with my big pistol on my hip and taking the– So stayed there, that was better than the Y, got up in the morning and cleaned up and took the trolley and took the I.C train back and prayed that these guys would– Interviewer: “Didn’t do anything stupid.” Meet me at the Randall Street Station. Interviewer: “Did they get there?” They were there bright and chipper, I said “Did you have a good time?” “Oh yeah!” I said “What’d you do?” They said “We went to the movies.” “Okay.” I said “Where’d you eat?” “Wimpy’s” You got this Chicago cuisine in front of you and you eat at Wimpy’s? Yeah, it was better than the mess hall, so we went and picked up our five prisoners, yeah five prisoners, two of them together and then I picked the biggest guard I had and fastened him to the other oddball, and we’d been warned don’t let them– The last prisoner chases, prick chasers, lost one, you don’t want to lose one because– No we don’t because we got our old handcuffs there, I don’t want to �Goodman, Donald be wearing them. We got them back just fine, we got the [unintelligible] walked down through the loop from station to station, so it was kind of fun. Interviewer: “So what were you getting these prisoners for?” I don’t know, I don’t remember what they were, I doubt that they were desperate murdering criminals or mass murderers, my guess is they were guys who got home sick and ran away to home and then they let them– And MDs let them sit there for 30 days and if they still had their uniform then they charged them with AWOL, if they destroyed their uniform desertion, and this was war time you didn’t want to be charged with desertion. So they were probably heading for Korea, after they finished they’d go– They’d finish basic training under the gun, we had a number of guys who went through our basic training outfit with guards right behind them and I’m sure they got shipped off to Korea. So I can’t believe that these guys were anybody that was that dangerous, I don’t remember. Interviewer: “So these were like Army guys that ran away?” (36:36) Yeah they were just Army guys yeah, they were just trainees. Interviewer: “Okay, I didn’t know if you were just like picking up random prisoners to draft into the Army.” No they’d been in and I’m sure they just got home sick and ran away home and so the MPs came and knocked on their door and said “Can Bobby come out and play?” And then they took them to Sheraton, so they never asked us as Sheraton where we spent the night before, I was glad about that. Interviewer: “It’s probably a good thing.” �Goodman, Donald But the Army did that for me, I belong to the Autobahn club in high school but I was– They had taught me this is your mission, that one awful night that blew things up, and if you got a job to do you do it and so I had in mind that I had a job to do and it’s too late to court martial me now. Interviewer: “There you go. You mind if I ask a few questions about basics?” No go ahead, I’m sorry I knew I’d ramble. Interviewer: “No it’s okay, it’s interesting stuff I never even knew we did that but so one thing that was really sort of outline in my historical background in classes on this is that the training for Korea and Vietnam, like the basic training, had nothing to do with what the combat was actually like there.” I will tell you, I think now looking back over it, when we had cities and training and shoot ‘em up training in town and villages, there were no hooches there, they didn’t teach– We weren’t shooting up Korean hooches those were European towns that we were– I think they were preparing us to fight Europe– In Europe. (38:20) That was what– And our chant– I don’t know how much you’re going to do about editing this but besides chant we’d learn to march. G.I beans and G.I gravy gee I wish I know and anyway it was a hup, two, three, four, you had a good home and you left your right, you wouldn’t go back if you could you’re wrong so [humming] If I die in a combat zone, box me up and ship me home, sound off– One, two. Sound off– Three, four— And then it was, if I die in a Russian front bury me with a Russian cunt, sound off– One, two. Sound off– They didn’t sound like [unintelligible] to me and we saw films of the Russians in World War II and we knew about that little Tommy gun, the little burp gun they had with a drum and on a ventilated barrel and there was– Rifles, well I think that we were gearing up to go to war with Russia at that time in ‘52, I didn’t think about it at the time but– Interviewer: “Oh yeah.” They were. �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “That’s what they were training you for if the Soviets attacked.” I think it must have been. An interesting thing, while I did graduate my oldest son was born the day I was discharged and if she hadn’t come through with that they wouldn’t have let her in the base hospital, I don’t know what we would have done but took her in and so she was– I was getting processed out of the Army, she was over in the base hospital and I came back from processing and I– Another Sergeant Jones let’s say, this was the boozer and “Oh Goodman your wife had a baby.” Said “What’d she have?” “I don’t know, babies are babies.” What the hell, so I scooted off to the hospital to see my son, my oldest and we stayed there, I think we just stayed there a week, and then my mother came to– We were living in a 28 foot trailer at the time, it was service, it was an Army trailer and they– I got– I managed to get one in January of ‘54, maybe it was February, and so we lived there until June and then packed up and headed for– Back home to Chicago Heights where I found my folks had sold their house and they were building another one and we were planning– Three of us, were planning to stay there at their house so it was an interesting time, right after that they– I know what I wanted to tell you, aside from doing– I became a teacher. (41:27) At that time teachers, especially men teachers, were held in high esteem. That’s not like today, today they just treat them like dirt but in those days– “In those–” God that makes me sound old, in those days, in the 50s when I started and the 60s even into the 70s, if you saw a guy teaching in an elementary school or high school and he wasn’t real old, he probably was a vet and he probably would not put up with a whole lot of crap from anybody. There were guys who did and later on when Jack Brice and I wrote– Oh in 30 years later, 1990s we were talking to the vets who had come in on the G.I bill from World War II, yeah it was cool, anyway– Wow were they a nutty bunch, and they were so gutsy they– Well one group the school they were in was that old Hackley building that looks like a castle and they had one teacher who– The teachers didn’t know how to handle these guys either I mean holy mackerel, but you’ve got these 17 year olds in with these guys who have been 50 bombing missions over Germany and whatever else they’d been through, they didn’t know how to handle them and this one– They told me about this one teacher in English, she hated– It was the second floor, she hated the pigeons that gathered at the top of the window. So she had some kind of long pole that– I guess to open and unlock the window, anyway she’d get up there and tap the window and chase them away so they just– I forget what she– She had some other peculiar thing. So they got up there, second �Goodman, Donald floor, got out one window, crept along the windowsill, unscrewed the screws that, held that window up, and then went back down and the next day when she went tap the whole window went down and she about had a heart attack. They did worse than that, they decided they’re in the middle of Muskegon, there was big talk they were gonna change– They were gonna move community– It wasn’t even community college it was a junior college, they were gonna move it out to where it is now over the banks of Four Mile Creek and a couple of them who were apparently old engineers, Army engineers, “You know what, they don’t have a bridge there.” “Nope, don’t have a bridge.” So a couple of them, I can imagine it took a few six packs to get them into this, “Well bring them a bridge.” “Okay, where are we gonna–” “Well we’re not gonna build one.” “Well no.” “Just find one, we’ll move it.” Interviewer: “They stole the bridge?” Okay, so that was– The bridge they picked was not– It was just a regular city street that had two lanes, and it was not far from where the old farmer’s market Muskegon is now, I’ve driven over that bridge. (44:50) So they got– They prepared ahead of time, they spent weeks squirting oil WD-40 or whatever they had then on the bolts and planning so this was the big night they were gonna– I bet they were well oiled then not only the bridge but then too, they had a flatbed truck, they had a crane, and they were under there unscrewing and they heard the train come. So the guy underneath figures if this is a steam engine he’s about to become barbequed, barbequed by bridge. So he’s yelling “Take me up! Take me up!” And they’re down there playing the game “What’s the password?” Finally they helped him up and decided, you know this isn’t the night to move the bridge, so away they went and took the truck back to wherever it had been and took the crane back wherever they got it, wherever they got the tools they took that back but as– I started as a teacher in 1956 we were treated really well, they were– People were on our side and nobody tried this crap that these teachers are undergoing now where you got a bunch of checklists, you got somebody come in and decide what good teachers do and what good teaching is and these are guys who couldn’t teach a puppy to poop on a paper and they’re running the schools. Interviewer: “Yeah, so what grade were you teaching?” �Goodman, Donald Oh I taught sixth grade for 13 years and in a ghetto school, I never had less than 36 kids, their average reading level was four but I didn’t have discipline problems, partly because they didn’t– I never sent a kid to the principal, I didn’t have to, on the other hand they didn’t come in and tell me what I could do and couldn’t do. I never had a– I never had a charge leveled against me and I show people pictures of my last sixth grade class– Mind you these are all black kids so if you’re wondering about that, there’s a picture of them when I take them to– On a field trip to Grand Rapids Museum. So I had to do– Overnight I got the bus figured out, these kids are dressed up really nice like it’s Sunday and they’re– And I was taking their picture and they don’t look like they’re beat up or they don’t look like they– And they don’t look like they’re wild either, they’re just kids and people look at the picture and say “My God.” But I had the one kid, I can’t make up a name for her, her name is Theresa, anyways she was always a bit of a devil and got into things. One time we were playing cage ball, I don’t know do you know what cage ball is? You do crab running and you have this giant ball and you kick it with your feet, you can’t have shoes on, and there’s this– It’s kind of like soccer if anybody makes a point it’s a miracle, and they’re kicking it back and forth and there was the backstop for the basket, well they crank it up if you’re not going to be using it because we use this gym for everything. (48:26) The way you crank it up there is a cast iron crank, okay you’ve got this big box on the wall and that’s what you put that thing into and turn it and it winds up cranking the thing up and down. Alright what do you do with the cast iron thing? Custodians put it on top, fine so I was standing under it doing whatever refereeing you can do in this melee and all a sudden wham! I feel this thing that all but knocked me out and I could feel blood, I sat down and I could feel the blood up there but the kids are dead silent and my God what and I gonna do here. So I gotta get somebody in here to take the class and the principal was there so I did go down there and I said “You gotta take over the class.” She said “What do you want me to do?” I said “Give them spelling, tell them to write their words down ten times, whatever take them back to the room.” Because that’s all they had left for time, so she did so I get after– And I went and did a dumb thing, I laid down, I mean it’s a wonder and afterwards I got up, she dismissed the class and I got up to get these sheets of paper with their names on them and this one Theresa, angel, she had filled up four pages with “I hope he doesn’t die. I hope he doesn’t die.” Wow, I saw her after she left and from then on we had looks because I knew how she felt, for all the hell she’d given me. �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “That’s good.” Years later, I’m trying to think how many years that would’ve been, maybe ten or 12, I’d gone through the high school, I was with the college, I set up a program in the prison. I was always doing something or other extra and I was– I had to go into the prison and I think give a test or something, anyways I supervised reading, writing, math classes in the prison besides the– When you get into the prison you gotta empty your pockets, put them in a locker and then you could have this big key. Okay you had to stand in front of this iron barred gate slid open, sprang, you stepped into a room– It wasn’t too different, a room about this size, and you stood there, the gate slid behind you, clang, oh God what a creepy feeling that is cause you’re locked in there, and then that one is supposed to slide open, sprang, and you go out and you could go– You’re free to go into the prison then carry whatever you got with you, tests or whatever there. So I’d been doing that a number of times and I got in there one time and the gate slid behind me, clang, I paused, waited, and I’m a little claustrophobic anyway I don’t even like elevators, and the gate didn’t open– Interviewer: “Oh no.” (51:55) And I “Oh my God.” And then I hear this cackling from up in the control booth and I recognize her. Interviewer: “It was her?” I said “Theresa you devil!” And she said, I’ll never forget this, “Mr.Goodman I finally got you where I want you.” Interviewer: “That’s wonderful.” I said “At least you’re on the right side of the bars.” She said “I am but you aren’t.” So we had a nice talk there and she finally let me out to go in the prison and I never saw her again, but that was so funny. �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “That is really– It’s really nice getting to see a former student like that.” Well I’ve seen– Oh I’ve had– There– Funny I was there the second year there and I was teaching second grade and I ran into– I had one kid but I thought at that time– This is maybe my fourth year teaching and I thought if I teach for 40 years I’ll never teach a smarter kid than that. I’ve taught for 40 years and never did teach anybody smarter than that, I went to– Unfortunately I went to his funeral about three years ago, he had gone on to become a lawyer, so had his sister who was very very smart too, and I felt so good– He had a heart attack, he’d been busy with that I don’t know what or how many things, I felt so good his mother remembered me cause I talked to her then, but he was just one of those no matter– You just know this is the smartest person I’m ever gonna know just how fast they pick things up and he was, that was a Lindberg school and he was with one of the classes of 36, 37. My average was 36 and if he taught– If they had more than 38 they did their best to try to move somebody out into somebody else’s class and we didn’t have that many classes and we had– Teachers did have real discipline problems, a lot of them did there, there were a lot of– There were good teachers who flat out couldn’t teach, back then you needed a steady hand, but there were also teachers who weren’t [unintelligible] (54:17) I had two student teachers there and one was so good I said “I’ll recommend you for any place, even here.” And they did teach there, the other one I said “You know you’ll be a good teacher but you can’t handle this kind of stuff, so I’ll write you a good recommendation provided you promise me you will not apply for this for at least five years.” And he said “Okay, that sounds good.” And he turned out, I’ve heard later he was a good teacher in a different school. Interviewer: “That’s good.” Different system. Interviewer: “So your Army training definitely helped you maintain discipline.” Oh yes it did, what the Army training did was open me up to myself and like I say when people say “Thank you for your service.” I think “No, I should thank the Army.” Because I didn’t learn �Goodman, Donald all that stuff by belonging to the autobahn club and I didn’t find me belonging to the autobahn club. I was– I didn’t know I could organize things and I did and I was– When I was grievance chairman they said “Will you be–” At the college this was “Would you volunteer for grievance chairman?” I said “Only if I run things and I choose my grievances.” They said “You can’t do that.” I said “Then forget it.” Then they came back and said “Let’s see if we can play your game.” So I said “Alright what I’m looking for, the only grievance I’ll take right now is one that involves big bucks and that when I look it over I’m pretty sure I can win it at arbitration.” They said “We’ve never taken a grievance to arbitration.” I said “That’s what I do.” So I did have a couple people come and say “You gotta take my grievance!” And I’d say “Nope, you just became the grievance chairman, bye.” And then forget it, so I finally got 10,000 bucks out of a grievance and it was– I was real sure I could take it to arbitration and we did and later on– And yeah it went to arbitration, they paid. Later on I had good and bad, winners and losers in the grievances but this one I have read– I learned to read real closely, that’s why I knew on that prisoner chase that I could get away with this because of the faulty rating that they did. I won one grievance based on one word in the table of contents and it was worth 3,000 bucks to a psychology instructor because the board had said there is no– It was double overload, there’s no such thing as double overload, you can’t file a grievance against something that doesn’t exist in the contract. (57:14) They said “Go through the whole contract and see no place does it, use the term double overload.” And I already knew what they was up to I said “Look at the table to contents it says double overload page 33 that means on 33 whatever they say is double overload.” And won this guy 3,000 bucks, he bought me two bottles of whiskey and I thought that was kind of nice. Interviewer: “That’s a good repayment, was it good whiskey though?” You know I think it must have been I don’t remember, I can’t– I really liked my 40 years, I really liked teaching sixth grade but I was– I got this one opportunity, they came along, Bill Murry who was the assistant superintendent, see I’d been teaching sixth grade there for– I don’t– Ten years maybe, knocking on the door– This is when Lyndon Johnson took over presidency and he opened up– He poured money and we got bushel baskets of money and all of a sudden when he had none before because we– It was a great society and the schools just all of a sudden we got �Goodman, Donald we got all kind of program we can do and so nine o’clock in the morning get a knock from the assistant suit and he says “Don, we got money enough to set up a reading program in the high school would you give it some thought?” I said “Sure Bob, yeah let me think about it.” He said “Okay I’ll be back at 11 you tell me yes or no.” He was back at 11, I hadn’t had any time to talk to my wife or anything, I said “Go.” He said “Okay, show up at the high school at like 3:30 on Wednesday and talk to Al.” Who had already set up a reading program like that in the junior high and so I went there and sat down to him, and we knew each other and he had these catalogs in front of him and he said “There they are Don we got an– You got an hour and a half to spend $4,000.” I said “I’ve never taught a high school student in my life I don’t know what kind of stuff I ought to be–” He said “We gotta turn the order in now.” So I went through and I had never even seen the room that I was supposed to be assigned, that’s how goofy it was under the great society. All of a sudden bushels baskets of money in there “Spend it now.” And so we did, some of it we spent well, some of we didn’t know what we were doing but it was a good program I set up, and then I got the call from the college saying they are going to set up a reading, writing, and math program, are you interested in being in on the ground floor of that? (1:00:10) I thought “God yes, you bet I am.” I am tired because we had learned– I’ll tell you another thing, sort of thing, I’m running– I’m rambling here. Interviewer: “That’s okay.” Anyway I had just got assigned to the high school and to set everything up and found out that they locked the doors at noon time, and I went– I liked to go out for lunch, didn’t want to bring sack all the time, I went to the principal said “Can I have a key to that one door?” He said “Gee Don I don’t have any spare keys at all.” He said “Can’t you just coordinate your coming and going with some other teacher?” So I was talking and complaining, pissing and moaning at one of my classes, I had a class of like eight, and one of my students “Mr.Goodman you want a key to that door?” I said “Yeah.” He said “Give me 50 cents.” I gave him 50 cents the next day I had a key that opened every door in that high school including the principal’s office. This is the ghetto, this is the way you do things, my Army training– Interviewer: “So I’m gonna go ahead and jump us back a little bit.” �Goodman, Donald Sure, jump back. Interviewer: “Back to the Army, you mentioned working or at least being there when integration started happening and African Americans started melding into units. Was there a lot of tension or was it just–” No, no it went a whole lot smoother than you might have thought, there were a few guys from the south who couldn’t get by but our battalion commander– Name was Green, Major Green, was black and we had– And we made– Oh when I went in my first platoon sergeant who was– Everybody was working above rank, whose corporal, Corporal Summers, and I remember him big, tall dude and I was kind of surprised, I don’t know why I thought “Fine.” No, we didn’t have– And in fact two of my good friends in the Army– This is advice for anybody that’s gonna be stationed anyplace, were cooks and one was– One’s name was slaughter, he was– I thought “Okay.” Interviewer: “It’s a fitting name.” (1:02:49) The other one was Makita and they were– Yeah they were drinking buddies but “Wanna grab a steak?” It’s after the movies, “Sure.” I mean they open up the mess hall, gotta start the fire with butter and coals– All our stills were coal, and then get out the steaks and fry them in butter and I remember the one time I had my own room in the– When I was permanent party in the barracks and it’s like six o’clock in the morning and somebody knocks on my door and I didn’t usually show up orderly room until seven. Knock on the door, “Yeah?” Open the door there’s three trainees, each one had a tray full of– They had oatmeal, they had cold cereal, they had juice, they had pancakes, they had SOS, they had– You name it and I thought “Yeah, one of the cooks is up for a promotion and they want me to write because I wrote all the recommendations for promotion.” I never had any turned down and that was actually the first time I had experience with creative fiction, in fact it bordered on fantasy for some of those but they all got promoted when I wrote it. �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “Hey gotta be good at what you do right?” There they were– Interviewer: “So they were just bribing you with food?” That’s it, reminding me. Interviewer: “Just a friendly reminder.” No that was Slaughter, he was– Slaughter, Makita and I hung out a lot together, I’d never had a black friend my God, and I remember one time I was so surprised, we were out someplace or other and said “How about we go to the movies?” And he said “They don’t want me in that movie” And I said “What?” That was the first time I’d ever heard– This was Missouri, he said “They won’t let me in there.” Okay, we’re not going to the movies then but it was still– Segregation was still hot and heavy in the 1950’s down south, not in the Army, no. (1:05:04) Interviewer: “That’s good.” It was, and it was absolutely– They integrated– Yeah it was only the trainees, a few trainees from someplace or other who started this crap “Well I’m not gonna–” Interviewer: “One interesting thing that I just thought of, did you ever work with any Japanese or German troops?” No. Interviewer: “When you were in training?” Nope, never did anything like that but one time I remember I was at my desk and these people came in and they had brownish uniforms and stars, like two or three stars like holy cross mother �Goodman, Donald I’ve never seen a– So I jumped up and the American who was with them said they were from Thailand and they were lieutenants something or other and I said “Oh, okay then.” They pass out thinking “My God, here’s two or three generals coming.” No never worked with– We had no foreign troops, we had 250 brand new troops come in as civilians and we taught them to do shoot and salute and polish a boot, that’s what– And they were gone and they could go– They’ll find out after they left us, go into engineering basic, I liked engineering– I liked explosives, you show me a bridge, you show me a steel girder bridge today and I’ll tell you exactly where to place the charges and what size they ought to be, how much TNT– I don’t know if we use TNT anymore, what to do but I still have that mind, the formula– If anybody’s checking, is still P=⅜ A and nobody knows what that means except old timers. Interviewer: “Well now I know.” It means pounds of TNT, the number of pounds TNT time ⅜ of the the area, the surface area, and most I beams– That’s for I beams, you get the web and the– Where’d it go? Web in the something else, I forget what it is. (1:07:20) Anyway you measured and then you multiply that times ⅜ and that tells you how much TNT– Interviewer: “Interesting.” You need to cut that, so I never got to blow a bridge but I still know how, that’s a lot of stuff. Interviewer: “Hey at least you learned.” Do you wanna know anything else? Because I’ve just been running my– Interviewer: “I guess we can start moving towards the end of it. We’ve already touched a lot on your life after the military and how it really set you up for success.” Absolutely. �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “Did you keep in touch with anybody from the Army?” My first, first sergeant yes and they moved to Florida– He got out before I did of course, and he went to Florida and we went down there to visit him, the wives did keep in touch by way of Christmas cards and he was a twin and they had– He and his twin had twin cars, one was a Chrysler and the other was a DeSoto, I forget what year they were but I remember those two cars. They had fluid drive which meant you could shift or you didn’t have to on the car, I don’t know how many years they actually did that but we kept track of John Nelson until a few years back and then kind of faded away. We went down to them to visit them, I’m not coming through, someplace down in Florida, he was an engineer, he knew– Oh we went to school together, after the Army he has signed up to go to the University of Illinois Champaign and that’s where I finished up my thing in education and he finished– He did his in engineering and so yeah I went to– When we were going to Champaign we had the one child Brian and I was working, full time student I had one job at the film library and had another working for ptomaine Tom, what he did– Isn’t that a great name, wouldn’t you buy from him? (1:09:40) He hired a bunch of us and we went around to fraternity and sorority houses, we had a route we took our own– We carried a big pot– Excuse me, of hot dogs, boiled hot dogs, and we– Excuse me, milk cartons, we had little pies, we had sandwiches, and we had the original– Well I always said we had the original Subway sandwiches but we didn’t call them that, we called them big mothers. So– And we always said that, they were made on a big loaf, you know Subway loafs big mother. Yeah it was so funny to go into a sorority house and these sweet little girls go “I want one of those big mothers!” And the joke we had with that was that– His name was Bill Sleicher, I still remember his name, anyway that Bill had the sharpest meat cutter in the world and we advertised this thing has three kinds of meat and two kinds of cheese on it, which it did but among ourselves we said “Yeah, three kinds of meat, two kinds of cheese, and you can read a newspaper through all five layers.” Which, yeah you don’t know how thin meat bologna and cheese can get sliced till you had a big mother. Interviewer: “That’s funny, so it was mostly just bread?” �Goodman, Donald It was, yeah just what it was, you’re gonna waste a lot of money on stuff, and I remember– I don’t know how much that cost but I remember a braunschweiger was 40 cents, 40 cent sandwich for a braunschweiger and we had a number of different kinds of sandwiches. God that thing was heavy, that was a gut buster but in those days I was in good shape, came out of the Army. Interviewer: “Yeah you were ready to go, so–” Go ahead. Interviewer: “Would you do it all over again?” Well not that I’m 87 years old now I think. Interviewer: “If you could–” (1:11:42) Am I sorry? Oh hell no, but I didn’t get hurt, there was no time when I was close to getting hurt and it didn’t screw up my mind in anyway, I learned to accept authority then but I learned to deliver authority too and I learned to assign– Assume authority, it was no question “Thank you for your service.” Thank you for your Army. Interviewer: “Well now I have a good response for when people tell me thank you for my service I can be thank you for your Navy, they’re paying for my college.” Yeah paid for– Finished up mine too yeah. Anything else comes to mind? Jesus, I've been talking for two hours. Interviewer: “Has it been two hours?” I don’t know, how long? �Goodman, Donald Interviewer: “I don’t think it’s been quite two hours.” Been a long time. Interviewer: “Unless you have any other interesting stories you’d like to tell us about your time in the military or something to do with afterwards.” No I can’t– Well I can’t think of anything else, I’m sure I’ll get out in the car and of course I will, a whole bunch of stuff but– Interviewer: “We could always do another interview if it comes to that. So I guess we’ll wrap it up here.” Fair enough. Interviewer: “Sounds good.” Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoodmanD2311V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goodman, Donald J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-06 Title A name given to the resource Goodman, Donald (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Donald Goodman was born on January 12, 1932, in Chicago Heights, Illinois. Goodman graduated high school in 1949 and went on to attend the University of Illinois Chicago, which at the time had a campus at Navy Pier, for three years. In 1950, he rejected his admission into the Air Force and enlisted into the Army due to the shorter tours of duty offered by the latter service branch. For Basic Training, he was sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, for three years where he participated in rigorous practice drills of combat scenarios which he described as overly chaotic and nerve racking. He also recalled how the racial integration of the Armed Forces was difficult for some recruits to mentally overcome and how the Army was subtly preparing its recruits, mentally, for a potential war with the Soviet Union. After Basic, Goodman was promoted to Corporal and became a Company Clerk. At one point, Goodman was assigned to lead a ‘Prison Chase’ job with two other soldiers to retrieve five prisoners who were being held on charges of going AWOL near Chicago. He and his two men enjoyed a night in Chicago before retrieving and delivering the Army prisoners to Fort Sheridan the next day. During his service on the base, he lived with his wife in an Army trailer and his son was also born in the base’s hospital. In June of 1954, Goodman was discharged from the Army and moved his new family back to Chicago Heights where he became a middle school teacher in 1956 and later a high school teacher. During President Johnson’s Great Society initiative, his school district received large sums of money from the federal government which he used to help establish a reading, writing, and math program at a local college. Reflecting upon his service in the Army, Goodman believed his military training, in both recognizing and assuming authority, allowed him to control his classes by maintaining discipline. He owed a great amount of gratitude to the Army for helping him grow mentally into the ambitious person he is today. Goodman also kept in touch with one of his old Sergeants, was ultimately glad he enlisted into the Army, and was grateful he was never injured during his time in service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4e13681e1732cb057b2add08d0175f72.mp4 ea0d1548798590bcc520e8cb6cc8ea2f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a03f569aaa037dcedb9fc6f0f3c92345.pdf f05c871c2a3704fd382dec47252cfc68 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Harrison Goodspeed (50:14) (00:30) Background Information • • • • • • Harrison was born in 1924 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and attended East Grand Rapids Elementary He attended high school in Massachusetts and graduated in 1942 He began paying more attention to the news after Pearl Harbor At the time, most people had never even heard of Pearl Harbor Harrison attended college at Dartmouth for one semester and then he enlisted He was pretty sure he would be drafted anyway, and if he enlisted then he might be able to have a say in his position (2:30) Enlistment • • • • Harrison enlisted because he did not want to have to join the infantry, but he is glad now that they put him in the infantry because he was able to see the war first hand After enlisting he went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek and was then sent to Arkansas for basic training He went to Colorado for desert training and it was very rough They were forced to go through combat conditions (4:20) Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP) • This was like going back to college; it was at the University of South Dakota where they were trained in engineering, but the Army then decided that they had too many engineers (5:10) Officer Candidate School (OCS) • • • • • Harrison went to Fort Benning in Georgia and graduated as a second lieutenant He got married in Grand Rapids and then shipped overseas Harrison received the best training for the infantry OCS Most of the men who trained him had been in combat in World War One He trained for only sixty days because things were getting really bad in Europe (10:00) Shipped Overseas January 1st, 1944 • They were constantly threatened by U-boats so they had to zig zag along the course and that took much longer than the normal trip �• They traveled in a convoy, and they men were to serve as replacements when they arrived in Europe (12:00) Europe • • • • They embarked in France and joined up with their company in Luxemburg right after the Battle of the Bulge There only 12 men left of the 180 who had fought and Harrison was one of the replacements When the company had reached 180 men again, they headed East He went through his first combat experience in only one week (16:30) The Machine Gunner • • • He shot at them near a Catholic Church and his Para-trooper friend was badly wounded and had to ship back to the US The mortar crew brought down the machine gunner and then some other men surrendered Each battalion is made up of four companies, and each company is made up of four platoons (20:45) Battle in a Small German Town • • • • • • They were traveling down a hill and were surrounded by craters in the ground from explosions Rifles started shooting at them and they started running down the hill They then went into the building where the sniper was shooting from They found some fresh poured champagne inside and some warm pork chops, which they consumed before proceeding Then they found a lot of petrified women and children in the basement There had been German propaganda that stated American men were on drugs and would rape German women (22:55) The German Army • • • They constantly found themselves outnumbered, in which cases they would surrender; Harrison said that they were “pretty shabby.” He also stated that the SS were the real “die-hards” Germans had shot at the platoons ahead of them while they were crossing the Rhine (27:20) German Bunkers • The Germans had just left their bunkers and his crew found a German pistol, a P-38 �• Franklin Roosevelt’s secretary was a veteran of the 88th Infantry Division during World War One and he had come to visit Harrison’s crew • He asked if he could give the gun to the president as a souvenir and it is still on display at Hyde Park (30:00) German Civilians • • • • • The company commander was going back home and so Harrison took his place His job was to contact the Germans as they moved along to see if they would surrender They worked with German Mayors and sometimes needed interpreters They had occupied Bavaria and spent a whole summer there They headed towards Berlin when the German army was starting to fall apart, but then the Russians said they could take care of Berlin, so they headed South towards the Austrian Alps (32:40)The Battle that Earned Harrison a Silver Star • • • • • He saw an American tank explode and found that six Germans were using anti-tank weapons He threw a grenade in the fox hole that they were hiding out in They had been pointing a machine gun at him, but they all were dead after the grenade They did not come across many German tanks, most likely because they were starting to run out of petroleum In Austria there were 200,000 Germans hiding in the mountains waiting to attack, but they eventually surrendered (36:40) The End of the War • • • • No one knew about all the concentration camps in Germany until the war came to an end During the last months of the war, Harrison’s crew was not taking very many losses and morale was excellent Many of the men in his platoon were from the East coast and were about 18-22 years old They went to France and then took a boat back to the US (40:25) Bavaria • • • While in Bavaria, they men continued to train because they thought they might be shipped out to the Pacific They dug a trench to set up a rifle range The men did not really need any more training, but Harrison had to keep them busy (43:00) The Scrapbook �• His daughter put it together for him and it contains many letters he wrote to his father and some pictures (45:50) Back in the US • • • • •   Harrison arrived in New Jersey on December 12th and then went to Indiana His wife met him there and they finally went home He took some classes in Michigan at Grand Valley and then went to the University of Michigan He got a message in the mail telling him that he would have to serve in the Korean War, but he was able to get out of it because he had three dependents He continued to study engineering at the University of Michigan � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goodspeed, Harrison (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goodspeed, Harrison Description An account of the resource Harrison Goodspeed was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1924. Harrison thought that he would soon be drafted, so he enlisted in the Army after high school in order to have a choice in the position that he would hold. Harrison served as a platoon leader in the 80th Infantry Division in France, Germany, and Luxemburg and provides some detailed combat stories, as well as observations on conditions in Europe after the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-04 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GoodspeedH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6fb40aea4f80ed73e892e77d1ee20df4.jpg 33c3fdbce706a0d5251d6a6d1014eec8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Michigan Novels Collection. PS1672.F57 O98 1896 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0021 Title A name given to the resource Out of the Woods: A Romance of Camp Life Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gookin, Frederick W. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Out of the Woods: A Romance of Camp Life, by George P. Fisher, Jr., published by A.C. McClurg, 1896. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1896 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/821c289514ad9b234b9cb8f2b0cc4e2f.m4v 2fda56a315b25910f14a81b983223b01 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/149565706651507f86906fe48c841ef9.pdf c048b384bb4e187219f8ad5c3eec83c4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Alexander Gorashko Length of Interview (02:06:27) Background Born in Saginaw, Michigan; 1st generation American, son of Russian immigrants Father owned a grocery store Born in1924 Father eventually sold the store and became a commercial fisherman near Saginaw Bay; Gorashko started school there Chevrolet Foundry, moved to Saginaw Went into trade school in Saginaw, only went up to the 11th grade; 1942 Remembers hearing about Pearl Harbor on the car radio after church Recalls hearing about Hitler, but that was all he knew at that time Had several jobs after school Remembers his manager telling him he wouldn’t be drafted, found it doubtful (was 18 years old) Wanted to work for the telephone company and kept going there to see if there were any openings January 1943, was employed at the telephone company Training and Service (00:03:36) Drafted two months later  Went to Detroit to be examined  Sworn in on March 27, 1943  Given one week to settle affairs  Michigan Central Depot, he and 200 other men were sent to Fort Custer by train �Inclined to work with electricity and wires (00:04:40) Wanted to be a radio operator on a plane Sent to Atlantic City, New Jersey for basic training; Army Air Corps. Took him about two days to get there by train  Went in a tunnel under the Detroit River into Canada, then into Pennsylvania where Gorashko saw a lot of electric trains, then to Atlantic City Atlantic City is known for being a tourist area, so the government converted all the hotels to barracks for all the men in training  Rooms were bare, cement floors, cots  Five or six men to a room  Had to close the drapes for blackout conditions Training included mostly marching (drill), calisthenics, airplane recognition, first aid, “over-thehill” (00:07:14) Had a drill master who wasn’t too strict Training took about one month A group went by several trains to Scott Field, Illinois for Radio School Had to do KP (Kitchen Police) for a week Had code class in the morning, radio mechanics in the afternoon  As he got more proficient, the speed of the code went higher  Gorashko wasn’t able to go over 16 words a minute  Wasn’t going to be a radio operator  Kept attending classes anyway until his group graduated Had Saturdays off, went to St. Louis, Missouri; a ship called “The Admiral” would patrol up and down the river to monitor the men Gorashko himself didn’t drink, but always found something to do �Gunnery School (00:11:08) Continued with his graduating class and wound up at Gunnery School in Harlingen, Texas Enjoyed gunnery school Taught how to take a machine gun apart and back together; then learned how to do that blindfolded (00:11:40) Also had simulations (a company in Detroit that made the screens), this was how they were scored Another test: given single shot guns, stood on a platform on the back of a truck (while moving) where they shot clay pigeons that were being launched from different directions  Had never used a gun before, training reflexes; was easy for him Later, went to a camp that had a turret set up and would use the turret to shoot a clay pigeons being shot out of towers, given only a single shot  This was a little more difficult for Gorashko Then, moved to a base that used planes to pull out a target sleeve, Gorashko and the other trainees would fly along on another plane (00:13:37)  Each men had different colored bullets, so several could be tested on the same target  Almost didn’t become a gunner because his seat belt wouldn’t fasten, a rule that must be strictly followed  Had to hold on to both ends of the belt while taking off so he wouldn’t fall out  Finally got it fastened as the plane leveled out  The sleeve had already passed but Gorashko shot away  When they landed, he was able to blurt out his reason for the delay; had 21 rounds left and was passed Also flew in a B-24 and operated a turret at all positions, then graduated (00:15:50)  1944, finished training  End of winter, March �Meeting the Crew (00:16:30) Had a “delayein-route,” went to Lincoln, Nebraska  Here he met his crew, didn’t meet them until the last minute Officers went on one train and the rest got on another, kept separate Went to Tucson, Arizona; took training as a crew in B-24’s; was a Tail-gunner Smaller men were usually Ball-gunners (00:17:25)  The area for the Ball-gunner is five feet in diameter with two machine guns and a small window to look out of  Very self-contained, has to depend upon everyone else to get out  Usually in there for five to six hours Tail-gunner  Very cramped area, had to be forced in because his shoulders were very broad  Turret overseas were much larger and wider, also had doors Didn’t get a chance to really associate with his crew in Nebraska (00:19:15) The crew flew together for a month and a half before they were sent overseas Flew all over the country, western part Flew a lot of night missions, not enough planes to fly during the day Pilot from Lanark, Illinois, very nice (00:20:00) Co-pilot from Texas; wanted to be a fighter pilot Bombardier, heavy-set Irishman from Connecticut, a smartass because he picked on Gorashko Navigator, a Jewish fellow from New York The Bombardier would always call Gorashko “Feets” because he has a size 12 shoe An officer also called him “Feets” which he thought was out of line �The Nose-gunner was from Connecticut, Edwin Doctor, nice guy, a joker Engineer and Top-gunner from Georgia, was a drinker, knew his job though Radio Operator was a Waist-gunner from Indiana, played the harmonica, nice guy  When over in Italy he and Gorashko went sailing together  Was responsible for the Ball-gunner The other Waist-gunner was responsible for Gorashko, Charlie Overton  When flying over an area where flak is being used, they must wear a special armor  Gorashko could not get the armor on and get into the turret because it was clipped together  Charlie Overton would bring him his “flak suit” once he got into the turret and help him hold it and clip it together  Had armor over the chest and armor over the abdomen  Also wore a heated suit: suit, booties, and gloves; Gorashko called it a “Bunny suit”  Wore the armor over this  Also wore an inflatable Mae West; everyone had to Went to Topeka, Kansas where they received all of the clothing they would need (00:25:05)  Gunners received a helmet with a visor, each were different colors; came in a kit  Issued some aviation sunglasses and .45 pistol  Boots, heavy clothing, and a heated flight suit  Received a bag about 2 feet long to keep all of their clothing Going Overseas (00:26:25) Some crews were given an airplane to fly overseas: usually flew to Brazil then to North Africa Gorashko’s crew was taken by train to Newport, Virginia, near Norfolk There for a few days until they could get on a ship, “Santa Rosa”; a passenger ship Had a couple thousand people on it �Sailed in a convoy Really enjoyed the trip across, went on deck often to read a book; good weather and no U-boat scares (00:27:35) Landed at Naples, Italy (00:28:08) Put on a trolley that was underground then went above ground into the northern suburbs of Naples Put in a building that Mussolini had built for underprivileged children; no facilities, slept on the floor with their blankets Waited to be deployed Had a chance to go to Pompeii (00:29:15) There wasn’t much battle damage in downtown Naples Met an Italian girl there (00:29:50) Got on a train and went through the southern part of Italy, on it for two days (00:31:20) Got out on the east side of Italy and stopped in an open field with B-24 Bombers Weren’t given parachutes, flew only 500 ft. off the ground, so they wouldn’t have helped much anyway Landed on an airfield, a part of the 736th Squadron, 454th Bomb Group (00:32:35) Could see the town’s church from the airfield, town of Cerignola, a part of the Foggia complex Didn’t take long before he was sent on a mission, 3 or 4 days afterward (00:33:15) First Mission (00:33:35) Had terrible living conditions  Five or six men in a tent  No electricity  No bathing facilities, took sponge baths  Used an ammunition box to heat water  Had a water trailer �The layout of the camp was a horseshoe shape; at one end, had a dayroom where a bulletin had missions posted on it (very rarely) Didn’t usually know when they were to have missions, kept in the dark usually Had to get early morning reports (4:30 AM), then go to the mess hall; didn’t eat as a group Then got on a truck for the 454th Bomb Group where they gathered at a Quonset hut containing a covered map which the officer would pull off when debriefing began Two colored threads, one red and another black, on the map  Red was the main route, black represented the alternate route Usually didn’t post missions on bulletin boards because spies or civilians could see them The morale was pretty good, miserable in the morning and happy when coming back alive (00:36:05) When overseas, had a few talks about what to do when captured; had been told the losses of planes were about 5%  Actually means 50% for 50 missions, good chance they wouldn’t coming back (captured or killed)  Expected to fly 50 missions; not told that the odds were 50% First mission was Budapest, supposed to bomb a truck factory, actually an armaments factory (00:37:30)  During debriefings, they were never told what the actual target was, so if they got captured, they could confess to bombing something else entirely Process (00:38:15) Enlisted men are first to the plane; officer’s men in groups are debriefed with more detail; Gorashko and the gunners usually waited on the side Then a truck comes by to give everyone K-rations and juice When the pilots show up, they do an inspection of the plane Just when they are ready to take off, the engineer stands outside the wing with a fire extinguisher (everyone else is off to the side) He walks from one wing to the other until all engines are working �They go through a checklist and then Gorashko and the other men get on board Four men in the back six men in the front The men in the back have their backs against the bomb bay bulkhead, so they have a little protection if they crash They then release the brakes and the plane begins to slowly move, and then speed up along the runway  Runways were actually mats, Marsden Mats Begins to feel some apprehension as they are 2/3 down the runway before they leave the ground; fence is ten feet below as they pass (also had a cemetery that they passed) During the invasion [southern France], took off at night, saw an explosion at the end of the runway (00:41:40) Two planes had run into each other, a total of 20 men First Mission, cont. (00:42:15) When flying to Budapest, had to be in formation at all times When over the flak area, become a little more scattered This was one of the scariest things that Gorashko had ever experienced, no place to hide An 88 will explode a ways behind, and they can’t help but think, “Is the next going to be a little farther ahead, or what?” After his first mission, Gorashko didn’t want to go up again On the first mission, went with another crew (pilot and tail-gunner were wither another crew) When they dropped the bombs on their target, the plane moved at a dangerous angle, lifting Gorashko off his seat; he was worried that the pilot flying had little control “Chaff,” like tinsel; cut to a certain length (depending on the frequency) and used to scramble radio frequency The other gunners would throw out the chaff as fast as they could, the sky filled with them; blurs the enemy’s radar, who would have to resort to optical Didn’t see any German aircrafts, just the flak Fighters usually flew above them, wasn’t sure if they were there on that particular mission �After the mission, they were loaded on to trucks and driven to the Interrogation Office and were asked questions about what they saw (00:45:33) Had a Red Cross girl handing out coffee and donuts; another line for whiskey, Gorashko would usually give his shot to the engineer Afterwards, could go back to their quarters Bucharest and Blechhammer (00:46:20) His next mission was about one day later at an oil refinery in Bucharest, Romania; dubious about going up but did his duty Charlie, who helped him with putting on his flak suit, had forgotten to give Gorashko his helmet (00:46:50) Reluctantly, Charlie went to give him his steel helmet; didn’t want to leave his position because he was standing upon armor that gave him protection from flak Just as he got his helmet on, Gorashko heard a “zing” and a piece of flak had fallen through the top right above his head and bounced off his helmet The amount of flak was the same as in Budapest (00:48:15) Gorashko was what they called the “Tail-end Charlie,” always the newest of the crew (00:48:30) First to be shot at, couldn’t see much outside the plane, so didn’t often see others get shot down Had 14 missions before being shot down, had three doubles (00:49:10)  Every mission to Germany counted as two missions Furthest flight, Blechammer near the Auschwitz Camp, in Poland near the German border Target: a petrochemical plant (this was near the point the Air force had bombed most of the fuel refineries in Romania, so this was one of the remaining plants for fuel) The target was so far that when they got back, they’d only 15 gallons in each tank; this is equivalent to two or three minutes of flight Flew the same mission again and didn’t have enough fuel to get back; tried to fly to an island called Vis (in Yugoslavia) that was controlled by the British (00:50:44) �Southern France Invasion (00:51:00) Flew in support for the landing in Southern France (August ’44); had to practice night flying with the pilot, co-pilot, and navigator On the morning of the Invasion, as they flew, they were joined by other groups; airplanes as far as the eye could see Had to drop bombs at 7:30 AM on a particular beach; couldn’t find their own planes, followed those in front of them Arrived at their destination 5 minutes late and couldn’t drop their bombs because they could hit their own men; flew back to Italy to drop the bombs in the Adriatic Sea (couldn’t land with them) When flying over that sea, could see miles and miles of enemy ships Hadn’t known what was happening on the beaches Prior to the Southern France Invasion, flew several missions targeting bridges (00:53:15) Bombed at 9000 feet; very low, anti-aircraft could shoot them out of the sky On one mission, felt the plane suddenly rise up as the bombs were dropped, wasn’t near the targeted bridge Hit an intersection of houses (this was in France); Gorashko isn’t sure what happened, but after interrogation, heard nothing else of it Didn’t turn back though, just went back with the rest Didn’t ever see any German aircraft during his missions, it was a problem (00:55:15) Hour after hour of scanning the skies, would sometimes daydream because it couldn’t be helped Gorashko was always concerned about an enemy firing from the direction of the sun; he had a piece of visor (made of very dark material) so that he could hold it up to the sun At the airfield in the beginning of July, shot down August 22 (month and a half) (00:56:25) �Entertainment (00:56:35) Life at the airfield was boring; for entertainment, they had a movie every other night  No electric lights, so would make a bonfire and roast potatoes  One waist-gunner would play the mouth-organ  One instance they swam in the Adriatic, also went into town a few times  Went to a mountain-top village, some men wanted to drink at a cantina  Remembers swimming with a ground troop fellow in a drainage ditch, suddenly a bunch of sheep manure had come floating down; had to use the showers the ground troops used (which they weren’t happy about) Blechhammer: Enemy from 12o’clock (00:58:25) When it was announced the mission was Blechhammer, everyone gave a groan  Told that they may have to make a landing on the island of Vis At the target, saw a plane on fire and spiraling downward; saw a bunch of parachutes Some of the others saw planes go down, too; one of the rougher missions On the way back (45 minutes after the target) the engineer checked the sight-gages; came to the conclusion that they wouldn’t make it back to Italy and started for Vis After a while, the pilot was on the intercom telling the men to be on alert as another group had been hit Half hour later, the engineer announced a plane was coming from 12o’clock (00:59:48) It flew under Gorashko’s group’s formation Made a turn and was vulnerable, but turned at an angle that the body armor was towards Gorashko’s group He could see the tracers bouncing of the plane; then Gorashko shot, but the plane was a ways beyond already Shot with short bursts, only one shot 15 or 20 minutes later heard explosions going on around their plane; hadn’t heard anyone call out an airplane At that time, turned his head and saw their plane was on fire �Had no time to tell anyone and got out, lost his intercom connections By the time he got out, the whole area was on fire; his oxygen tank had caught fire, as well The two waist-gunners already had their parachutes They headed into the bomb bay to let the others know about the fire Heard explosions just as they were standing under the fuel tanks, Gorashko thought it was his ammunition going off in the tail-end Was actually being attacked by another plane, a fighter As the bombardier hit the lever for the bomb bay doors, the plane went into a roll Fell off the ten inch catwalk and got caught on something; going down in a dive Parachute harness caught from behind It then took another little roll and freed him; he then floated out as the plane fell No time to think, just pulled the handle for the chest chute and nothing happened Instinctively pulled out the pilot chute, which pulled the main chute out Was dropping at such a rapid rate that there was a jerk, “stop,” that caused him to pass out Seconds later, woke up; his lines were all tangled and was missing a boot Trying to figure what to do; the lines of his chute were still unwinding, so he was spinning downward Saw an airplane burning below, another plane Felt a sense of euphoria as he realized that after all this, he was still alive It didn’t last long Could hear bullets going by, thought it was bullets from the plane that was burning below; was actually being shot at from the ground Came down in a tree and hung there for a moment and tried to decide what to do next Saw movement below and then a Hungarian soldier came forward, aimed, and shot at him �Gorashko surrendered (01:07:00) Was shaking as he tried to get down from the tree Was surrounded by people, got undressed and they checked to see if he had a radio Pulled off his wings and soldier hit him in the back with the butt of a rifle knocking him down Got dressed, but then a German Sergeant came over and made him undress again (in front of all women, children, and Hungarian soldiers) Then got dressed again and was told to go to a certain spot, there was a yellow bottle on the ground Gorashko picked it up, everyone backed away; it was oxygen, and he told them what it was (to which they all laughed) After they examined him, they marched Gorashko to a place where he would be kept captive Marched passed some houses (one child tried to give him an apple, but his arms were full), it was a really hot afternoon Went up to a house to rest, was given bread and water, they were very kind A quarter of a mile later came to a university where he was put in a room Charlie, one of Gorashko’s buddies, showed up here; doesn’t think anyone else in his plane got out though Prison Camp (01:11:13) Seven or eight other men were captured, as well Slept on boards lain across sawhorses The next day, fed soup with potatoes peelings and a little piece of bread Was told they were being taken by train to Budapest by an English-speaking Hungarian soldier A tall civilian was standing next to the soldier and asked him something; the Hungarian soldier then asked if there were any Jews among the prisoners No one said anything, one fellow looked Jewish, but nothing came of it; Gorashko is pretty sure that civilian was actually a Gestapo Marched down the road down the road to the station, were being spit at and slandered by civilians as they went �Put in a boxcar with young Hungarian soldiers with machine guns who eager to fight; was really uncomfortable and Gorashko couldn’t wait for dark so he wouldn’t have to see them staring Followed Lake Balaton to Budapest, arrived at 12:30 or 1:00 AM, taken to the city jail by ambulance Spent the night there with a Lieutenant, never spoke a word, too tired; slept on mats upon the floor The next day, taken to the prison and put in solitary confinement for five days (01:15:00) Was interrogated to which he gave vague answers, said he didn’t know anything The interrogator then pulled out a book that contained his bomb group number Was taken back to his cell, asked for a nurse because he had a burn on the right side of his face and right hand A day later, put in a room filled with bread There for another five days, taken to a train station and guarded by two pilots on rest-leave Got very cold, had only their summer clothes on Taken out of Budapest, stopped at one place where they saw a huge Ferris wheel (Vienna); taken from there and to the north It got so cold that they had to huddle to keep warm After a couple days, stopped during the night and slept until morning, awoken by a German sergeant from the prison camp Made to push the railroad car off the track Walked 20 minutes through the woods to the prison Examined very thoroughly, had their pictures and fingerprints taken The barracks were all filled, so they were taken to little buildings called “dog houses,” only 10x10 feet with eight men No electricity or facilities, had to go outside the door  Gorashko had to go one night, and a guard dog was coming around the corner, he made sure to get back into the building as fast as possible �There were about 2,000 men in each compound, so about 10,000 men at this camp (01:19:55) They built another compound and it took a whole day to move Gorashko and the other prisoners Given nothing to eat that day No beds or facilities besides a stove; had to make their own mats Lights went out at 10 PM every night Daily Routine (01:21:17) A lot of the men in the prison were anxious to know how the war was going The morning, given hot water; then stand out to be counted At noon given a stew or potatoes, very small portion (Gorashko ate out of a can) The next meal was either the stew or potatoes, as well, with a 1/7 piece of bread; daily ration Got Red Cross parcels; were supposed to get one per man per week; only got a ¼ or this so they would split it  One pound can of Klim (milk spelled backwards), two D-bars, corned beef, sugar, coffee (one can), K-2 Crackers, cigarettes (four packs, a form of money)  Didn’t trade with the Guard Officers, very strict  “Big Soup”  Some men actually knew a few of the Officers, they had lived in Saginaw but had gone back to Germany  “Green Hornet” Usually played cards provided by the Red Cross, also had a library with books donated by the International YMCA (would sit around and discuss the book being read) (01:25:25) Gorashko’s first book was, “Chemistry for Nurses” Not much trading went on (01:26:40) Got a job as a bread cutter �Had a compound leader; each room elected a leader (01:28:00) Assigned details (get water, clean the room, peeling potatoes, etc.) Had 20 men in the room, would rotate the jobs  When peeling potatoes, would have to do it outside, so if it was cold out, everyone would help out  Used butter knives The International YMCA had brought in some instruments, they had a show; a couple days after the show, one of the comedians came in with a piece of paper with the news (01:29:45)  Went from room to room  Heard about the Battle of the Bulge Also given photographs by the YMCA, one actually had a radio built into it March (01:31:10) Wasn’t much change in mood or morale as the Russians got closer, the prisoners hoped they would be liberated by them December, Russians made a big drive into Germany from Silesia, progressing towards Pomerania, where the prison camp was Gorashko’s room leader told them to treat the Germans well when the Russians come because the Russian wouldn’t Could hear gunfire and canon fire, heard nothing the next day The Commandant came in to tell them that they were ordered to evacuate, one day to get ready 7:30AM must begin marching, no transportation or food, February 6, 1945 Very cold, marched out the gate and handed one Red Cross parcel per man Gorashko’s group came out last, were told to take two because they had too many left Marched through the woods; Gorashko had to eat most of his extra parcel (in 2 or 3 days) because carrying it was becoming too cumbersome Stopped at night at two barns, 500 men to a barn; only just enough room to sit �A fellow in the hayloft had a guitar and began playing for 20 minutes, then asked for requests Someone answered, “Yeah, how about ‘Let Me Sleep in Your Barn Tonight, Mister?’” and everyone laughed and from then on they told jokes that night Continued marching for three days and on one particular night, Gorashko was so weak and tired that he couldn’t climb into the hayloft without assistance In the beginning, men were able to keep up, but a week later some were falling by the wayside By this time, the German’s had a wagon to carry the stragglers Some of the older German guards (around 65 years old) couldn’t handle it and threw their guns out No one attempted to escape, no point because they were in the middle of German territory No on attempted to escape from the camp, either, highly improbable that anyone could get out; too many spotlights, dogs, and machine guns Had to stay 15 feet away from the fence or the Germans would shoot, “Warning Rail” “Long, Lean, and Unclean” Some men had to walk 86 days, Gorashko did not because he got sick (01:36:50) “Combines”- a group of three men who took care of each other; each did different duties Gorashko got separated from his, but found a couple guys; about this time got diarrhea Waiting for a train; couldn’t eat anything without it coming out, so he had to tell the German guards Took him a hospital barn where he was given a stall where he could sleep, also given a Red Cross parcel and blanket There for three days Moved him to another barn, very cold, moved up into the hayloft The group up there didn’t want him there because they had a way of getting extra food; he got in on it anyway A German General then came and took 49 of the prisoners by wagon to a prison camp in New Brandenburg; waited for 16 hours in 0 degree weather �Gorashko froze his feet and hands very badly; they were taken back to the barn because the prison was having a Typhus epidemic The next day, knew he needed to take better care of himself if he wanted to survive, went into one of the greenhouses, a cellar Had heated vents, so Gorashko snuck in there and warmed his feet; did this for a couple days Bribed a French worker with cigarettes to keep him from being discovered One day, a German General came walking through and greeted him, then continued walking; he didn’t go back there again Eventually, they were taken to a train by car; 50 men to a car Travelled all night and wound up at a train station in Hamburg Given a German Red Cross parcel with a piece of sausage and bread in it, thought it was out of this world Next morning, in another camp and bombers from England were flying over The camp was filled with British men captured in North Africa; worse conditions than the first camp No Red Cross parcels Allowed to keep all of their stuff, except their guns; had a little market going, a lot of trading, a “stock market”; a very ingenious bunch “Blower” a tin can that had fire in it and a small grill to set a can upon; use twigs, paper, and a crank to light it; became very hot quickly British were tough, found one of their men stealing and threw him in an outhouse and urinated on him One of the Americans happened to take a bunch of cigarettes but they were stolen from him when sleeping This was March of ’45 (01:45:30) Received news everyday The Germans came in one day and told them to pack up and move Took them out to a gate; the war front was close, so saw a lot of German vehicles and planes �The British had to stop and make their tea; one of the men from one of the other camps kicked this over and bellowed at them to get in ranks They began to march and after 5 km, a couple of planes come swooping down; a German plane shot down by an American; was about 15 or 20 feet above their heads Stayed at a farmer’s barn, no place to sleep; slept in on a conveyer belt of a threshing machine The days were getting warming, passing through villages and crossing bridges They were crossing one particular bridge when Gorashko suddenly heard the propeller of a plane, thought it was going to strafe the bridge Two 20 mm guns were shooting at these planes; these planes went over them shooting at something across the river Had felt helpless during that incident Another incident: British Mosquitoes were patrolling the highways at night for convoys; shot a rocket near the barn they were sleeping in Decided to sleep under a wagon the next night Kept being moved from one farm to the next, being fed barley (01:50:10) Made it to an intersection where there was a little community A woman fed them soup and cake One of the guards said that the Americans were in the next village, one man on guard duty Later, a jeep came in with a British Officer and American Sergeant; the German guard threw his gun down The Germans threw their hands up and the prisoners were told to round up all the guns and Germans Found a German supply truck with food, drinks, and money Gorashko took half a loaf of bread and shared it with a guy who had half a jar of jam While they were eating, a German Officer came up to them wanting to give up; Gorashko told him he had to sit down and wait until he finished eating One of the ex-POW asked them if they want some eggs, a woman was cooking for the men �They walked to the house with the German officer, let him get his stuff then took the officer to an enclosure with the rest of the captured Went to the next town to get a car, walked then took a bicycle Got into town and everyone was trying to leave so they could escape the Russians One of his buddies got a truck fueled by pieces of wood and a fire Everyone was having a ball drinking and singing Came up to a bridge lined with stalled vehicles, MP’s made them push the truck off the road (01:54:10) Determined to get a car but all the vehicles were torn apart because they were being used as blockades against the Russians Began walking again, and a New Zealander in a jeep picked them up Reached a bridge Told by the MP to push the jeep into the river after they crossed the bridge Gorashko saw a small cow path that went straight and said to go there so they wouldn’t have to lose the jeep Made it to another bridge, worried that the jeep would be taken Met a 20mm English Gun Crew who told them to join them for supper Had eggs and tea, told the crew they wanted to cross the bridge This was the same crossing where they thought they were being shot at (the original bridge was by now replaced by a pontoon bridge) Saw one of the last actions, a house blown up by cannon fire; were waved across by MP’s Driving late at night, had nowhere to stay; told to go to the Mayor’s house, then to the Commanding Officer’s house Shared a bed with a Lieutenant and hoped the guy wouldn’t get his fleas (had a lot of fleas) �The next day, taken to a school house where they were served the best meal (01:57:20)  Mashed potatoes, Swiss steak, gravy, peaches  As he left, felt his mouth water and threw all of it up; stomach couldn’t handle it; did this again the next night  Went to a hospital and was told to stop eating too much at once Wound up at a British airport, waited for a plane, four or five days (01:58:10) Flew to Brussels, Belgium, controlled by the British  Were issued British uniforms, but Gorashko wanted to keep his flying coveralls V-E Day, May 8 (1945), lots of fireworks Put on train to Namur, Belgium, under the control of the American Army Was deloused, kept his coveralls which were deloused by gas Given Invasion money, nice clothing, and had Belgian women bringing them food Sent to Camp Lucky Strike on the French coast Wanted to go to Paris; hitchhiked for two miles, but the road was blocked (01:59:25)  Didn’t have a pass, so decided to walked around the MP’s  Walked along the coast and saw all the emplacements for the Invasion  Did this all afternoon, then went back to the camp  Given eggnog provided by the Red Cross  Had a musician by the name of Alec Templeton, a blind pianist, perform  At night, men were playing crap games Shipped out to Le Havre, France; told they would have KP duty (02:00:15) Gorashko wouldn’t do it, so he walked out and went to downtown Le Havre Had supper with some bargemen and was going back to the camp, but didn’t remember where it was, and it was getting dark, had tea with a French man �Left and eventually ran into another man heading toward the camp KP duty again, went to downtown Le Havre, again; got back on a GI truck Was then placed on a ship to Southampton, England; didn’t land, waited for orders (02:01:30) A couple hours later, continued sailing Had more men than bunks, so had to sleep on deck; still a very pleasant trip Getting near America, could see a bellboy swaying back and forth Had to proceed slowly due to fog, so Gorashko went under the deck to wait Later, one of his buddies, Red, told him to get up on deck Saw the Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, and Brooklyn Saw a sign on Brooklyn that said, “Welcome home! Well done!” there was a ship full of girls and a band playing He cried, it was great Perspective (02:02:42) All that had happened definitely changed the way he looked at the world It talks about this in the last page of his book  It’s not the fancy things, the fancy clothes, the fancy cars that matter, it’s the everyday things  “These are the things you miss: bread and butter, a clean shirt, a bath, a nice bed to sleep in” Benton Harbor was quite a welcome Then went to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey by train Saw German POW’s frying up steaks, AAA Steaks The next day, went to Fort Sheridan, Illinois, allowed to go home Home for about a month then got a telegram telling him to report to Miami Beach in a month Shipped to Wilmington, North Carolina as a helper in a radio shop that had B-26 Bombers and P47 Fighters �Moved him to an intercostals waterway where there was a ship; made a radioman there  Just guard duty Given 73 points and shipped back to North Carolina and was discharged Went home and wanted a better job at the telephone company Was going on a date with one of the girls at the company and was waiting for her One of the bosses comes by and asks him why he isn’t working here (knew him by name) and so Gorashko told him he wanted a better job The boss asked for his number and got him a job at Port Huron Retired after 41 years, has worked all over Michigan � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gorashko, Alexander (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gorashko, Alexander Description An account of the resource Alexander Gorashko was drafted in 1942 was assigned to the Army Air Corps. He began training as a radio operator, but then switched to gunnery school, and was assigned to a B-24 crew as a tail gunner. He and his crew were sent to the 15th Air Force in Italy, and flew 14 missions before being shot down over Hungary, including raids over Romania and Auschwitz, and a mission in support of the landings in southern France. After being shot down, he was captured and sent to a POW camp in Pomerania, and was eventually forced by the Germans to march eastward to escape the advancing Russians. The Germans continued to move prisoners around as Allied forces approached from east and west, and Gorashko was eventually liberated by American and British soldiers Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-01 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GorashkoA Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bf4eca95a1af7a67f37129acd85aee8b.jpg df2eb9c75590a15e6e92f526aeaa362d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Regional Historical Collection. QL791 .P57 1925 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0178 Title A name given to the resource Among the Farm-Yard People Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gordon, F.C. Description An account of the resource Binding of Among the Farm-Yard People, by Clara D. Pierson, published by E.P. Dutton & Co., 1925. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1925 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b79ebc92ac0822c11fbaa72276d186b5.jpg b9890d754b53c709e216ceea74ea49a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Regional Historical Collection. QL791 .P612 1901 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0209 Title A name given to the resource Among the Meadow People Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gordon, Frederick Charles (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Among the Meadow People, by Clara Dillingham Pierson, published by E.P. Dutton & Co., 1901. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1901 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/400733bb3c0239a1a043449219e4d957.mp4 c7fc6aa01d610ce0eaf43c3fdfd14378 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/43a1de5774ade27de56fec5f88f1be34.pdf da5d4357551e875260f4fa39d3e829d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project George Gordon World War II 1 hour 20 minutes 3 seconds (00:00:22) Early Life -Born in Evanston, Illinois in 1925 -Raised in Lacrosse, Wisconsin and Winnetka, Illinois -Graduated from high school in 1943 -Father was initially a beer distributor for Heileman Brewing Company -Later went on to become a stock broker for Ashland Oil Company -Had three brothers -Remembers that the family had a cottage in Wisconsin (00:03:06) Start of World War II and Enlisting in the Marines -Head about the news concerning Pearl Harbor that Sunday night -Didn’t know anything about Pearl Harbor prior to the bombing -Gas rationing took effect quickly after the United States entered the war -Had to do a lot of walking just to accomplish every day errands -He was made aware of the war by the personal impact that it had on his life with rationing -Prior to Pearl Harbor he hadn’t followed the war in Europe -In April 1943 he was drafted by the Army -On the way to being sworn into the Army the Marine Corps offered him a chance to enlist -Changed his mind and decided to enlist in the Marines instead (00:06:35) Marine Corps Boot Camp -Went to boot camp in San Diego -Didn’t do so well with rifle training because of bad knees -The Marines desperately needed new soldiers so he qualified as a sharpshooter anyway -Got to boot camp by way of train -After twelve weeks of training he was allowed for a short leave home -Went on marches in the mountains around Camp Pendleton, California -Most men actually enjoyed being in boot camp -They were given three square meals a day and a bed to sleep in -Specialized with the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) -Remembers that there was competition between the training platoons -Who could do a training task better, who would be rewarded, etc. -Main emphasis was discipline and following orders (00:14:37) Deployment to Guadalcanal -In December 1943 he was sent to Guadalcanal in the Pacific Ocean -He was assigned to C Company 1st Battalion 3rd Marine Regiment 3rd Marine Division -Remembers that his lieutenant had been an editor for the San Francisco Chronicle -Had gotten to Guadalcanal after being sent over from New Caledonia by way of transport -Noticed that older men didn’t deal with deployment as well as the younger men did -While he was in Guadalcanal he developed a serious infection -While at Guadalcanal they received additional training for fighting in the Pacific �-Learned that he was incredibly adept at throwing grenades -Broke a Marine Corps distance record (00:20:21) Marianas Islands Campaign-Landing on Guam -In June 1944 he boarded an LST (landing ship tank) bound for the Marianas Islands -Lieutenant got a personal letter from General Teddy Roosevelt Jr. before landing -Landed at Guam -LSTs were being protected by a destroyer -Still took a hit from a Japanese dive bomber -Before the landing at Guam they ran out of cigarettes -He was part of the third wave in -Still took Japanese artillery fire -Japanese had already been pushed off the beach by the first two waves -Abandoned his BAR and instead chose to help wounded down a hill back to the beach -Later got hit by several banzai attacks without any kind of rifle to defend himself with -Remembers that the Japanese were using dud grenades -He was finally able to find an M1 Carbine to use for the time being -Shot and killed a charging Japanese lieutenant colonel -Noticed that the lieutenant colonel was attempting to become a suicide bomber (00:33:45) Marianas Islands Campaign-Silver Star on Guam -After getting established on Guam he and his unit were sent out to relieve an outpost -They were set up in a skirmish line to attack a Japanese position -Miscommunication led him to initially going out on his own -Was able to get back to his own line without alerting the enemy -Eventually the skirmish line pushed forward to engage a Japanese machine gun position -He wound up running straight towards the machine gun position and got separated from his unit -Only had two grenades on him -Used last two grenades and two live ones that he found to neutralize the machine gun -For destroying the position on his own he was awarded the Silver Star (00:44:10) Marianas Islands Campaign-Other Details on Guam -Spent a lot of time hunting down the Japanese forces on the island -Given alcohol one time by a doctor to relieve his fatigue -Wasn’t a drinker at the time and was able to fall asleep in his foxhole -He wound up being able to sleep through a firefight between Japanese and Marines -Spent three days in a hospital because of having dengue fever -Spent most of his time on Guam going out on patrols (00:48:33) Iwo Jima -After Guam he and his unit were sent over to participate in the invasion of Iwo Jima -Remembers that it was a hellish looking place -Ugly island with nowhere to find cover from fire -Soldiers welcomed getting horrendously wounded just to be off the island -Remembers seeing amputees that were happy to be done with fighting -Remembers that even after Mount Suribachi fell the Japanese continued to fight on -Almost had to land on Iwo Jima -His unit was being sent in, but after a logistics mix up his unit was sent back to the ship -The plan from there on out was to keep his regiment on hand as a reserve unit -Worked with cargo on board the ship during the Iwo Jima Campaign �(00:56:29) Return to Guam -In later 1945 after Iwo Jima he and his unit were sent back to the northwest part of Guam -Mission was to help clear out the 7,500 Japanese that were still at large on the island -Placed in charge of his squad -Ran into a Japanese suicide bomber -Was able to kill him before he could detonate the grenade that he was holding -Eventually was able to clear out the remaining Japanese on the island -Remembers that Guam had a diverse mix of terrains -Red soil, arid places; jungle; and beautiful beaches -His platoon was sent to a hill as a show of force for the higher command -They weren’t supposed to be near the hill, but were because of miscommunication -American artillery barrage wound up killing half of the platoon in a friendly fire incident (01:05:24) Interactions with Non-Americans and Foreign Experiences -Didn’t interact very much with the native Chamorro people on Guam -They were U.S. friendly, but they didn’t exactly like the U.S. presence either -Knew that they actively fought against the Japanese though -Heard about one Chamorro farmer killing a group of Japanese soldiers -Caught them on his farm and hanged their bodies -He and the other Marines were allowed to eat the native fruit on Guam -Got to know some of the native farmers on Guam -Got to know some of the Korean forced laborers that they liberated from the Japanese -Very friendly towards Americans -Saw the Marines as liberators and allies (01:09:03) End of the War and Coming Home -Got back to the United States on December 14, 1945 -Landed in San Diego -Went back to Chicago by way of train -Didn’t have any overcoats provided to them even in the dead of winter -Had been kept on Guam even after the bombs were dropped -Serving as a U.S. presence there -They had also been training for the planned invasion of Japan -Sent to Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago and was discharged from there -His father picked him up in Chicago and brought him home to Winnetka, Illinois (01:14:22) Life after the War -In early 1946 he enrolled in and attended Cornell University in Ithaca, New York -Graduated after attending for four years -Went to work for the same company as his father -After that got involved with Standard Oil of Indiana (renamed: Amoco, now part of BP) -Worked in Grand Rapids and Detroit, Michigan as well as in Chicago -Met his wife while working for Standard Oil -Settled permanently in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1955 (or 1960) (01:16:59) Reflections on Service -Learned that sometimes you have to have faith in fate -No amount of training is ever too much training to prepare you for something -Happy and feels lucky that he was able to avoid some of the worst landings in the Pacific -Combat experience taught him to listen to intuition �-Feels that instinct and intuition saved him when he destroyed the machine gun on Guam � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_GordonG1653V Title A name given to the resource Gordon, George (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-06-26 Description An account of the resource George Gordon was born in Evanston, Illinois in 1925. He grew up in Lacrosse, Wisconsin and Winnetka, Illinois and graduated from high school in 1943. In April 1943 he received a draft notice for the Army, but enlisted in the Marine Corps. He trained at San Diego and Camp Pendleton, California and specialized with the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). In December 1943 he was sent to Guadalcanal in the South Pacific where he joined C Company of the 1st Battalion, 3rd Marine, Regiment, 3rd Marine Division. In June 1944 he partook in the invasion of Guam where, after neutralizing a Japanese machine gun nest, he was awarded the Silver Star. At the start of 1945 his unit sailed to Iwo Jima but did not land, and instead returned to Guam to clear out Japanese stragglers and prepare for the invasion of Japan. He remained there after the Japanese surrender and returned home in December. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gordon, George Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6fa7c2b14e063475a58ac4f2b970dd5.mp4 4ac98a39910dbe5708d09a3f1bec9bd0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff860e7d7305865c01de8cff65b46744.pdf 79ecbaa7e90d2b84379a4ad1204e07fa PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos Interviewee: Ginny Gordon Date: 1984 Part: 1 of 2 [Barbara] First question being: you were here at the very beginning. [Gordon] Uh huh. [Barbara] I just want you to talk about what it was like at the very beginning in terms of starting from scratch. [Gordon] Okay. Well, did you want me to talk about how there was the founding committee. They wanted to add another college. They were into the cluster college concept and they were going to be five cluster colleges. There was College of Arts and Sciences, which they were going to get a name, but they never did. And then Thomas Jefferson, which was well established. And then college three, which became William James College… [Barbara] How did you get faculty for William James College? [Gordon] Well, there was the original committee that was Tom Cunningham, Bruce Loessin [?]… there were about seven people on that and some faculty members from CAS that were on that committee. And they advertised and the first person that they hired was Ken Hunter. They hired Robert Mayberry that year, Richard Joanisse, Dick Paschke, John Mactavish from CAS, Dan Clock who was in TJC (he was halftime CA, halftime William James). So, there was John, Richard, Dick, Dan Clock, Ken Hunter, who else? There were five and a half people that first… Robert Mayberry! Okay, and they came in early August. They all came here. They started quite early. And then they met and got the groundwork… the schedule all made out that was published. Of course, then we were on terms, so classes didn't start till the end of September. Our first two students were Theresa Paul and Tyree Anderson, and they also worked on the committee. So, then there was me, five and half faculty, Bruce Loessin [?] and Tyree and Terry Paul. And the schedule was made up of about probably, I don't know, fifteen or seventeen classes and admissions office recruited a hundred-and-fifty-two students that first year. [Barbara] What were you promising them that they would come to a new school? [Gordon] They were looking for an alternative education. They all had the real pioneer �spirit. Those first-year students, by the way, have been quite successful in the world. Most of them have gone to graduate school. Dick Wilson, do you remember him? Well, he was in that original hundred-and-fifty-two. So, we started out with a very small, selective, close knit, and we had all the first floor of Lake Superior Hall. So, we had our own turf. And we met often between classes; we had like a coffee room and everybody would sit around and quite often after classes. [Gordon] Formally, we had one or two council meetings a week and informally there was always a lot going on. [Barbara] Who went to council meetings? [Gordon] Everybody went to council meetings. We had to have them in thirty-four-thirty-six with the door open; they were usually packed, and they were always open to everybody. [Barbara] What did you talk about? [Gordon] We talked about adding new classes, what we were going to add, what the needs were; the purchases usually were made on a sort of, more or less, a communal basis. Governance document was written then. So, there was nothing when anybody came and we had no government, no structure, nothing. And everybody… they all had a hand in creating their own institution or organization from scratch. They didn't inherit any rules. [Barbara] Well, did the faculty have more say than the students in creating this? [Gordon] Well, in a sense in that they certainly couldn't teach something that the faculty there weren't capable of teaching. I mean within the capability of the faculty, yes. But the original programs where the administrative and management, arts and media, social relations, pretty much environmental studies, and then of course the synaptic program. Those were all that was established prior to the hiring of the faculty. [Barbara] But you say that this whole… [Gordon] The way that the college was going to move… was established, I mean, that was that they can decide they were going to go into economics or something. [Barbara] But the alternative nature of the college was set up by the entire community, is that what you're saying? [Gordon] No, that was… No, the grading/no grading…the grading system was set up by �the administration. By the original committee they were not going to have grades. They were going to have honors credit or no credit. They did drop the honors the second year in or second or third – it must have been the third year. And that was a communal decision we did. [Barbara] When did representation come in? Because by the time I got to James not everybody was on a council. You had… [Gordon] Well, that was all how the governance document was written during the first and second year. So, that was where representation came in. It was a whole community, and then they decided how they wanted to rule themselves or govern themselves. So, the governance document was hacked out, changed a million times over during the course of the first, I would say, two years. What year did you come in? [Barbara] Oh, seventy-five, something like that. Seventy-five, seventy-six. [Gordon] Oh, okay. And it was pretty much established when you came in? [Barbara] Okay, how did… [Unknown] Hollywood! [Gordon] Yeah. [Barbara] How did the James philosophy get imbrued in all this? How did this happen? Was it… did Mayberry lecture or something or how did the community get built here? What were the ethics of the community? How did everybody learn to work together? [Gordon] Well, let’s see. Well, I don't know. [Barbara] Okay, that one's going to go. Do you need Ginny right now? Is that why you came in? Do you need me to stop? [Unknown] Oh, I'm just waiting… [Gordon] No, it's okay. I was just… I didn't really understand your question. I really don't know what you're driving at, it seems sort of a… [Barbara] Why don't you talk about what you were saying before we started about the hiring thing. Where you were getting so many applications. As you could be very selective. �[Gordon] Okay. There were… the first year, there were 2,500 applications. They had advertised in, you know, I would imagine several academic magazines. Whatever. They advertise in New York Times, places like that. And there were 2,500 applications. So, the faculty could be very selective on who they wanted to pick. [Barbara] What kind of criteria were they using? [Barbara] You were in on a lot of it because it was kind of your decision. [Gordon] Well, I think they were looking for people that were, first of all, interested in alternative education. Secondly, who fit into the categories of the programs that William James was offering. And then also, they were looking for people with a very strong background in academia. People who are activists. People who weren't from the traditional background, you know. Like Lafleur. And they were looking for women. They definitely had a dedication to hiring women. So that's kind of, you know. [Barbara] This is getting at the community thing again. [Gordon] Okay. [Barbara] You've been a secretary here. When you were at James, you participated in decision making. [Barbara] In what ways did you participate in decision making? [Gordon] Well, I was on the council as an elected member for about two years. And also, I had the voting privileges of hiring. We voted at the end on who we were going to hire. They would bring two or three people here per position and then hack it all out for better or for worse. And I had… all the secretaries had voting rights on faculty hiring. And the council members, of course, where the ones that had voting rights on other things. [Barbara] Okay. In the years that you've been here, you've seen a lot go on. I wonder if you think we've made certain mistakes at James. What mistakes did we make at the college? What should we have done better? [Gordon] Well, I think the only thing that I think could've been a little… I think it could've been a little more disciplined. Not structured in a sense, like exams, or grades, or anything. But I think that some of the faculty were a little too lenient about student’s participation in the class and work that was required. I got my degree from William James. Totally – I took all my courses in William James. So, I was a student here, as well as working here, so I can speak from a classroom as a �student as well as a worker. I think that some of the students fell into the cracks because they had a view that this sort of cavalier attitude, "It really doesn't matter if we don't go to class. It doesn't matter if we don't get the work in on time. We still love each other, and I'm a real good friend of professor, you know, so and so, and so therefore I don't have a problem." [Gordon] And I think that some of them are still not being able to cope and are still trying to get a degree that started before I did. [Barbara] And you would be the one to know that because… [Gordon] I found as a student that was serious… class I found it very disruptive to students. I had a real hard time with those that would show up occasionally in class and then try to participate as if they've always been there and they didn't even know what the textbooks were. So, that was a problem I had as student. I think that could've been a little loss… sort of, chummy with the students where it wasn't important. Because it was important. [Barbara] What did we do right Ginny? What was the… [Gordon] Well, I think that the level of education was just incredible. think the wide range of classes was phenomenal. I think that the faculty were absolutely superior. I mean they came from the very best schools in the country themselves. They were all very brilliant. The ones that have left, have gone and have been hired by first-rate schools. They weren't ordinary faculty; they were extraordinary. And they brought with them a wealth of culture, education, knowledge. They were all so interdisciplinary. They didn't have one discipline where nothing they taught was nothing but history, they taught nothing but English or they could teach numerous amounts of subjects – each faculty. That was another thing that they looked for. Interdisciplinary! That’s the keyword. And that's something that I missed, in the beginning, when we were talking… is that they were, first of all, hired on how much they could teach. And they could… most of them, like Engie, could teach five or six different disciplines. It was incredible. And they brought all that knowledge to each class. That was the main thing. You don't find that at all anymore. So, I don't think I could have gotten a better education anyplace. I feel real fortunate, you know. And if there were a few flakes that fell by the wayside – so what, you know? I mean the ones that came out of it… the opportunity for a superior education was there if you chose to get it. Yeah. [Barbara] Good answer. You wanted to talk about why you think some of the faculty wanted to come here. Because of the area? [Gordon] Oh, I think first of all, they came here because it gave them the opportunity to create something where they could use all their talents. You know, where they �weren't hired as a quote like Engie hired as a history professor. Period. Where she taught nothing but history. I think they were all looking for that. They all had the pioneer spirit; starting something totally on the ground floor. And it seems like they came from areas where, being close to the lake, having the choice of living in the city or in the country, on the lake, was real important to them, you know. It's kind of like going out to the Colorado mountains or something. I mean it was a pioneer spirit here to come here where things weren't established either. And they lived in Grand Rapids, they lived in Allendale, and they lived in Grand Haven – which are worlds apart as far as the environment goes, you know. I always feel like I've driven 500 miles from the difference between Grand Rapids and in Grand Haven, you know. [Barbara] I was talking to somebody who moved… [Gordon] Yeah! So, you had that choice that I would find very attractive coming here from, say, New York city or you know. [Barbara] Ginny, here's a question I ask people, and I never ask it in advance. I want an answer in a sentence or two: if you had to sum up the core of William James, what was distinctive about William James? Very briefly. One thing. What was it? [Gordon] Mainly doing, in your profession, what you enjoy doing. You know, mixing your avocation and your vocation into one, or getting it as close to it. Developing your avocation. Not getting an education for the sake of a job, per se. We all have to earn a living but not just, you know, engulfing your entire life. [Barbara] Great. [Gordon] You know I was sorry. I really got nervous when Alex was in here. It just shut me right off. [Barbara] I know, me too. It draws all the… he just comes in… [Gordon] Well he was standing there and listening and all of a sudden… [Barbara] I was mad at him because he knows what's going on and he knows it's distracting, so he walks in, does this, went over there. He didn't have to do that. [Gordon] I know it. So, I'm sorry that… [Barbara] No… [Gordon] I don't even remember what the question was now, but I… �[Barbara] What you did was you said: "I can't answer it." Which was the honest response, and we went on. [Gordon] Yeah, okay. [Barbara] You gave some very good answers. One thing that is so neat is that I ask everyone that question about what was the core of William James, say it in a sentence, at the end of an interview. No two people have said the same thing. I just love it. [Gordon] Oh, yeah, yeah. [Barbara] And it’s so William James-y. See. We weren't programmed, there wasn't one thing to hold on to. I've recognized every answer and none of it seemed off the wall. [Gordon] Um-hum, uh-huh. [Barbara] You know, but it's all been different. I just love it. I'm going to run this sequence… [Gordon] Oh, that's neat. [Barbara] Of people answering it. Isn't that nice? [Gordon] Oh! That's… yeah! That's the way to do it! Yes! Yeah, yeah. [Barbara] It really works. I just love your answer, you know? [Gordon] Good! Good! Good. [Barbara] I think you did real well. Please think for minute what else you would want to say. You know what I mean? [Gordon] Um-hum. [Barbara] Sometimes I walk away and then we go: "What we really should have said was...." [Gordon] Yeah, I know it. [Barbara] So just take a second. I think it's a great interview okay. [Gordon] Well, let me just mull a couple things around. �[Barbara] Keep talking. [Gordon] I think that's one of the biggest things that is missed now, but it's also because of the times – it’s not just Grand Valley, it's not just because William James isn't here – is that there's no feeling of community anymore. There might be within small little… like your little film group or you know, your little… but as far as your feeling community with the historians, you could never. I mean, what do you say to those people? Or that… I mean, you know it's nothing but… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_35_Gordon Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gordon, Ginny Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Ginny Gordon interview (1 of 2, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Ginny Gordon by Barbara Roos, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Ginny Gordon was an Executive Administrative Secretary in Grand Valley's Central Administration during the creation of William James College who provided administrative assistance and helped guide the new faculty in the college's infancy. In this interview, Ginny discusses her experience being a part of the William James College community since the very beginning, the pioneer spirit of the founding faculty, and the profound interest in alternative education at that time. This interview is part 1 of 2 for Ginny Gordon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Women in higher education Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/03f1157e97647dfcdc6a56685b84634a.mp4 80777c9b409648e8ddf90e4cd703cb22 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e4250b4e55bd1b1e848eb9b4d288ec33.pdf 277cc5bcabf70f38a15cf1ee28d9b528 PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos Interviewee: Ginny Gordon Date: 1984 Part: 2 of 2 [Barbara] Anyways, so you were talking about community and how… what the quality of community, I guess, you were talking about. Talk about it some more. [Gordon] Well, it was really unusual to have a large group of people to sit together and discuss things intellectually, respect each other, and make things move. I mean and they were very reasonable about things. You go in there with an opinion and you'd listen to, you know, three or four people talk and you come out and you'd get a much broader idea, a broader sense of the way a college should go there. The decisions weren't made by one person in an office. They were made by a group of people and nobody had more control than anybody else. I suppose legally the Dean could throw out a decision, but I don't think that ever happened. I think that they voted on it and usually there was a large majority at the end of maybe an hour or two-hour communal discussion of a problem or situation most of the time people came out being more dedicated to the decision and how it affected the whole community, rather than how it would affect themselves personally. And I think that was one of the real successes of the college. [Barbara] It seems as though a very important decision made early on was to hire Adrian. Do you remember anything about her hiring? I mean we didn't talk about this; I just wonder if you did. [Gordon] Yes, she had been considered the year before and I can't remember whether she turned the decision down or not. But then the next year she was reconsidered and asked to be hired and was hired. She did come here, I believe, for an interview in the beginning, but had another commitment that she needed to finish. And then the second year she was reconsidered, came back for an interview, and was hired. And that was the second year, too, of the college, I believe, when she was hired. Dick Paschke was the chairperson of the Dean search committee. I remember that and there were hundreds of applications for that position. Yeah, Robert Toft I think was one of those two… uh-huh. Yeah. And he was subsequently hired for college four, which became Kirkoff College. [Barbara] You brought community up several times and so have I. How did community contribute to the quality of education? Community’s nice but what does it have to do with education? �[Gordon] Well for one thing, one of the things that the community talked about was the courses that we're going to be taught. You know, so that affected their education: number one. Number two: it kept people here. They didn't just come and take a class and leave. They stayed here. This was like a second home to many people. They would come in the morning and they had their discussions that were informal, as well as formal. They talked about your classes; I mean, education was the main topic of conversation. Another thing that I think that should be mentioned is the political awareness that William James instilled on the students. It wasn't just a question of coming in and getting an education, it was how they could affect the outside world. They were also very much aware of the Woman's Movement, of the Vietnam War, of all the political things that were happening around the world. [Barbara] Okay, I hear what you're saying. Then when these people went out to get jobs or – you yourself, because you were a James student – go to a place where there wasn't community or there's less community where it's very hard to be politically active. Isn't it sort of like the education was aiming us one way and the society another and therefore the wrong kind of education? [Gordon] Well, no because we have to have… it would make it even more strong. It would be even more important to have a political awareness so that you could try to keep other people politically aware who didn't have a political awareness. I can't see that an education does anybody much good other than just earning a living, period, you know. It doesn't help humanity any, that's for sure. So… [Barbara] Anything else? Great answers! [Gordon] Oh well, I don't know, I guess that kind of covers it in a nutshell. Yeah. [Barbara] Good answers, too. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_36a_Gordon Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gordon, Ginny Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Ginny Gordon interview (2 of 2, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Ginny Gordon by Barbara Roos, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Ginny Gordon was an Executive Administrative Secretary in Grand Valley's Central Administration during the creation of William James College who provided administrative assistance and helped guide the new faculty in the college's infancy. In this interview, Ginny discusses the quality of community found within William James College, the hiring of Adrian Tinsley during the second year of the college, and how the sense of community at WJC contributed to the quality of education. This interview is part 2 of 2 for Ginny Gordon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Women in higher education Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives