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                  <text>Naval Recognition Training Slides</text>
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                  <text>Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477"&gt;Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: William Dudas
Interview Length: (44:28)
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chloe Dingens
Interviewer: We're talking today with Bill Dudas of Jenison, Michigan and the interviewer
is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Now Bill,
can you begin with some background on yourself to begin with, where and when were you
born?
I was born in Sawyer, Michigan outside of Benton Harbor and…
Interviewer: What year?
In 1924.
Interviewer: Okay now did you grow up there?
Yeah, yes until I was 16 and I- I signed up for the, my mother signed the slip for me to get in thein the army when I was 16 and my father had a fit. I remember hollering and hollering about that.
Interviewer: Now the rule at that point was that you had to be seventeen.
Had to be seventeen but it was gettin’ up there on September 10th is my birthdate and it- it
seemed to everything kind of fell into place and then I met my uncle who was in World War I
and he said, “if you do anything, get in the artillery.” So, I did I just used the word artillery.
(1:40)
Interviewer: Okay now let's back up a little bit, while you were living in Sawyer what did
your family do for a living?
I lived with my grandparents.
Interviewer: Okay.

�And my grandfather was an architect and contractor from 1889 to 1933 on the World Affairs.
Came from Paris, France, he came from Paris, France married my grandma and she was from
Paris, France also. And- and that was on, in Sawyer, Michigan on our great Lake Michigan and
there's complications of here because there's years in that on room school I went to and I enjoyed
it very much. And kind of freedom that's what I had there, and I had one sister and two brothers
with my regular family. And my grandma asked if I could come and stay with them and that's
what I did.
(2:51)
Interviewer: Okay and how old were you when you went to live with them?
Four.
Interviewer: Okay was this just because it was…
Some family tension.
Interviewer: Yeah, okay.
There, as you'll see in my history book.
Interviewer: Alright so basically, you're pretty much brought up by your grandmother
then?
Just for three years.
Interviewer: Three years.
And then she passed away.
Interviewer: Okay and then did you go back to your mother at that point?
Yes, I went back to my mother and father, oh yeah.
Interviewer: Alright and then you said you, and now so when did you actually enlist in the
army?

�In July 29th of- of 1943.
Interviewer: Okay.
(3:35)
Lots of things happen and that till they got off to that.
Interviewer: Right, now do you remember how you heard about Pearl Harbor?
Yes, I heard, my father heard about it and he called me, and he called us all there. And- and then
the phone rang, and the newspaper that I delivered paper for said that they're driving extra
papers. That’s what it said on the front “extras!” Chicago, Detroit,” and the News Palladium
from Benton Harbor. St. Joe, the twin sister, didn't have a paper yet.
Interviewer: Okay so you have to go out there and start selling extras or just delivering
them?
Yes, yeah- yeah Sunday night we had the papers and we were taking- taking our route, our paper
route and you're running up and down the street yelling “extra, extra.”
Interviewer: Yeah, the kind of thing we used to see in a lot of old movies...
Yes, you’re right.
Interviewer: With the paper boy running around.
You’re right.
Interviewer: Today people don't know what that is.
Yeah that’s true, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now then once you, now how did life change at home before you joined
the Army? I mean was there rationing going on or that kind of thing?
(4:49)

�I was an athlete starting from fourth grade, Benton Harbor's noted all over Michigan as an
athletic- athletic plant and I started in the fourth grade, running and jumping, shooting baskets,
and all that kind of stuff. And went right into the junior high and we had programs in basketball,
and some football, and we played football by ourselves and that kind of thing.
Interviewer: Okay.
Then the basketball was Saturday morning stuff, and, in our neighborhood, we had running
meets and all that kind of stuff.
Interviewer: Okay now after Pearl Harbor
After Pearl Harbor…
Interviewer: When you go back to school you at that point, how were things different? How
did things change in your community after Pearl Harbor?
(5:39)
Well the things that happen, they asked for people to join the Army, or Navy, or Air Force,
Marines. And I- I don’t, keep saying the Marines will be next to us all the time you know,
because we were number one division. And it- it had the- the generals and that that they were all
aware of it and then we moved from Texas.
Interviewer: Okay. You're- you're kind of jumping, you're- you’re going ahead a little bit,
let us back up.
Okay.
Interviewer: I'm asking about life before you enter the army, so in 1942 and you're still in
school at that point.
Yeah 1943.
Interviewer: Yeah but before you join.

�Yeah.
Interviewer: What were things like then? What were things like at home in Benton Harbor
after the war starts?
(6:36)
We were patriotic people and as we were in the school the teachers taught, talked to us that way.
And if you narrow it down real quick my fifth and sixth grade teacher had a brother in the
service, in Alaska building the highway. And I was interested in it and she used to read every
letter he wrote back, and then we would write, and then she'd write back to him. And so, the
questions were answering back and forth there. And when I got to be 50 years old, I went
Alaska. And on the, all the way on the road from the start to the finish.
Interviewer: Now okay now did you want to get into the Army as soon as you could?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay
Yes.
Interviewer: And that's why your mother signs.
My uncle wanted me in as fast he could, yeah.
Interviewer: Right, so you told us, so your mother signed for you.
Yes.
Interviewer: And you asked to go into the artillery.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Alright now where did you report to?
(7:39)
Detroit.

�Interviewer: Okay and what happened there?
And in Detroit they gave you shots and examined you real close and they were looking for
people that were in good- good body shape, good thing. Could run fast, could jump, and the
whole thing and this is special training at Camp Wolters, Texas.
Interviewer: Okay how did…
That’s where I ended up.
Interviewer: Okay, how did you get to Camp Wolters, Texas?
By train.
Interviewer: And what do you remember…
There’s no planes in those days.
Interviewer: Yeah- yeah, what do you remember about that train ride?
That it was a long boring ride to get to Texas. Mineral Wells, Texas they dropped us off there.
Interviewer: Okay.
Camp Wolters, beautiful camp.
Interviewer: Alright.
And that's when my life changed, when five of the officer- officers and enlisted men were
training us, they were captured by the Japanese in the Philippine Islands. And they escaped, the
whole company did, that, we're talking about a thousand people, you know. And- and we had
five of them that were training us, and we could run faster, jump higher than they could. We
clean ‘em up on their, in the course that we had out there that you had to have instruction on.
(9:02)
Interviewer: Alright, okay now was this your- your basic training?
Basic training.

�Interviewer: Okay.
21 weeks.
Interviewer: Alright and did the guys, did these instructors, did they tell you how they
escaped or what happened to them?
No not really.
Interviewer: Okay.
We- we were so interested in what they were doing for us right there. And- and it kept us alive,
kept me alive, I lost all my friends that were there.
Interviewer: Now we're there when you started training down there did you know what
division you were going to be in?
No.
Interviewer: Okay so this is just basic for everybody.
Yeah basic.
Interviewer: Okay and how much emphasis did they put on discipline?
All- all of it, solid your non comms, sergeants, corporals, and all of that and be sure you salute
all the officers yeah.
Interviewer: Now what happened when you did something wrong?
Oh I never did anything wrong, I went along what they had because they were gonna keep me
alive.
Interviewer: Alright.
Right.
Interviewer: Now did- did some of the other men have more trouble?

�(10:05)
Yes, oh yes, they- they’re the people that had to get up at four o'clock in the morning for KP
service. Anybody goofing around with that whole thing and- and we were kept busy. We had our
own football team, our own softball team, right there on the campgrounds. And so, in order to be
in- in those things you had to behave yourself and mind the rules.
Interviewer: Okay.
When they said you're gonna trot for half a mile, well you trotted that. If you didn't, you were in
trouble yeah.
Interviewer: Alright.
And obstacle courses were big in our time, big. I had a big one at our high school built by the
athletic director who was the ex- army guy and he's too old to get in now, but he said they have
to have this, boy that was the circus for us.
Interviewer: Alright now was this, how long did the basic training last?
21 weeks.
Interviewer: Okay so that's a long…
(11:02)
Back on the train and over to New York, and not too far from we could see the Statue of Liberty,
and then they shipped us off to En- to En, Wales, really.
Interviewer: Now at this point had you been assigned to your unit yet?
No.
Interviewer: So, you still don't know what, who you're gonna be…
Right. More training on the beaches in- in Wales in that area.

�Interviewer: Okay because I guess the official history of the division indicates that they
formed up in the US.
Yes.
Interviewer: And then they went over to England and did more training, but did you join
them when they…
First was Ireland.
Interviewer: Right, yeah okay.
That was one group and we went to Wales.
Interviewer: Right.
Cardiff, Wales.
Interviewer: Okay.
And- and just a great time- a great time. Went British, some British guys were pros at that
because they just got out of Dunkirk.
Interviewer: Alright so…
And I say that nobody knows what I mean by that.
Interviewer: Well we do.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Alright, but they were, that was back in 1940. When did you arrive in Wales?
(12:07)
In ’44.
Interviewer: Okay and about…
January of ’44.
Interviewer: Alright so the 2nd Division is already in Britain by that time.

�They were, Ireland.
Interviewer: Yeah, they were Ireland, okay so you're coming, you're still just a
replacement. Tell me about the trip across the ocean.
It was- it was a beautiful ship; Île de France and it was capacity. Loaded in there four high in the
bunks down low and every day we'd go up on top for the, in case of emergency, a torpedo might
get at us or something like that. Told us what we had to do and- and the- the rope ladders were
thrown overboard and, but we didn't go down the rope ladders, they just said, “there they are.”
You have to go down there and get off the ship by the rope ladder.
Interviewer: Now was this a converted ocean liner?
Yes.
Interviewer: Passenger ship?
Yes, passenger, a beautiful ship and I'll have to say twenty thousand.
(13.10)
Interviewer: Okay, and did you sail by yourself?
Yes, outrun we could outrun any problem like that, but there was, the Navy was around not too
far from us all the time.
Interviewer: Okay, so you had escorts of some kind.
Yes, oh yeah and we went Scotland first and then we got a train from Scotland and- and guys
went in different directions and I went to Wales.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah, now how long did you spend in Cardiff?
Cardiff? Six months.

�Interviewer: Okay.
Almost to the day.
Interviewer: Now how did the civilians treat the American soldiers?
Great, great the restaurants and that their fish and chips, that kind of thing, yeah. And people
were great- great and they appreciated us and- and I was of course one of the lucky ones that got
to camp way, a long ways from where the Germans were bombing but we could hear it, we could
hear it. At night, every single night the Germans would fly over, we'd fire up, make noise andand the bombs going off. That just conditioned us for what we expected on D-Day.
(14.19)
Interviewer: Right now, what kind of training were you getting by this time?
Infantry.
Interviewer: Okay.
Scouts.
Interviewer: Okay, explain a little bit what is a scout? And what do they do?
Okay, we would leave at night, go across the line back of the enemy, and then during daytime
we'd hide in the fields, and when it got dark again, we started to move around. And we had an
artillery observer with us that told his division, the artillery division what we were looking for;
the mortar groups, the German mortars, and the German artillery, and that's how far sometimes
ten/ fifteen miles behind German lines.
Interviewer: Okay.
And- and we were trained well in- in Camp Wolters, Texas. How to sneak around there, cops and
robbers in the neighborhood, yeah.
(15.14)

�Interviewer: Okay.
Cowboys and Indians.
Interviewer: Alright now when you enlisted you had asked to be in the artillery…
Artillery, right.
Interviewer: But now it sounds like you're training to be in the infantry.
They took us, the guys that could run the fastest, can jump the highest, and on the obstacle
courses, and- and when you want to, you'd have a race on Saturday or Sundays and make five or
ten dollars. A guy would think he was gonna beat me or beat one of us, there in no way.
Interviewer: Okay.
Because I was in great condition when I went in the service because I trained to be a football
player in Benton Harbor.
Interviewer: Okay, so because of your athletic ability they took you out and they made you
a scout?
Yeah, oh yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Alright.
And we would learn all kinds of things in that type of atmosphere, yeah.
(16.10)
Interviewer: Okay now at what point do you get assigned to your unit?
Oh, at D-day.
Interviewer: So, you didn't join the division until D-day?

�No, until D, after D-day and- and- and I, the picture show I came up with the- the one of the
regiments, there's the 9th Regiment and the 23rd Regiment and- and 38th Regiment, that's my
regiment. I'm very proud of it all the way.
Interviewer: Okay, so when did you meet, and then which company did you join?
G Company, 2nd battalion G company.
Interviewer: Alright and so when did you meet those men?
I- I met ‘em on the way to Trevières, it was about 14 [actually 4] miles from the beach.
Interviewer: Okay so…
We were replacement people.
Interviewer: Aha okay, so how did they, so- so basically talk about the, that time, so when
did you leave Cardiff? Was that?
(17.14)
We left it for- for D-Day.
Interviewer: But so, on D-Day?
Not the, oh no.
Interviewer: Or after D-Day or before?
After D-Day, we were- we were in a boat on D-Day.
Interviewer: Okay.
A- a- a big liner, with you know three or four thousand people, guys on there.
Interviewer: Okay was that a liner or was that a…
All well trained people.
Interviewer: Was that a troop transport ship now?
Yeah, yeah.

�Interviewer: Okay, now did it have landing craft to land you with or?
I think they followed us, I, cause all they had to do is come from Southampton. You could see
France in a hurry there, when you got out there on the North Sea.
Interviewer: Alright.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Or the English Channel any way.
A lot of noise because over back behind us coming out of Britain are big battleships firing guns
that can cover many, 20 miles out. And those, the shells were going over the top of us and they
were trying to clean off the beaches. The Germans had prepared all these rigs with railroad ties
and all kinds of tracks in there.
(18.15)
Interviewer: Okay.
And you, we used that to protect us from the machine guns up on top of the hill.
Interviewer: Alright, now as you, so when, on what day did you land on the beach?
On- on D-day that was December 6th/ 7th. December, or June 6th
Interviewer: But June 6 was D-Day, but did you actually land on D-Day?
No, it was 7th or 8th right in there.
Interviewer: Yeah, right, I think…
With so much confusion, I never can get it straightened out. I think in my books you'll be able to
figure it out there.
Interviewer: Okay, now do you remember, did you spend, you know more than one night
on the ship waiting to land or just one?
Yes, yes.

�Interviewer: Yeah, so, you may have landed…
The 8th, I think it’s the 8th when we- we came in there.
Interviewer: Okay and then when it's time for you to land…
Land.
Interviewer: How does that work?
Worked with the rope and the net that they threw overboard, and you climbed down there and
got in the landing craft. And- and of course the landing crafts are famous, in our war and some
were blown right out of the water with maybe 40- 50 guys on it and it was quite a serious thing
and then when it dropped down, out you went, right up to your shoulders in water.
(19.31)
Interviewer: Okay so they drop you out that far?
Yep- yep not that far, sand bars and all that stuff on the ocean.
Interviewer: Okay.
And the water was cold it's all I know. And you were, carried our rifles up on top, I had a sub
Thompson.
Interviewer: So, a submachine gun?
Yeah submachine gun, yeah.
Interviewer: How much did, how much were you carrying? What kinds of things did you
carry with you when you landed?
Blanket and rain[?] and half, your half of a tent cause it take two guys to cover up a foxhole with
a tent.
Interviewer: Right.
Over the top you know.

�Interviewer: Okay and what else did you carry?
A shovel and a bayonet and- and that's a do or die tool.
Interviewer: Now were you bringing rations and food?
Yes, the yeah, the K-rations, the C's were much later in there. And- and- and four or five packs
of that and I didn't smoke, and I didn't drink, so I didn't have to worry about that part of the
whole thing. I had one thing in mind, get ashore and get in the hole.
(20.39)
Interviewer: Okay so when you landed was there any firing or was it quiet?
Oh no, there was so much noise, to this day it's too much noise.
Interviewer: Okay.
I was in the service for 28 months and I think for 20 months there's nothing but that noise, the
big guns and that.
Interviewer: Okay but the Germans weren't shooting at you?
Yes, they were.
Interviewer: There were still Germans shooting at the beach?
Germans right there- right there, we had to get them off the beach.
Interviewer: Okay.
Had to get them off all the way to Trevières, that was 14 miles up there and a- a couple other
small towns in the way.
Interviewer: Right, but I was asking on the actual landing beach itself because you landed
on Omaha Beach.
Omaha.

�Interviewer: And where there still any Germans on Omaha Beach or were they behind
there?
They were behind.
Interviewer: Yeah, okay.
(21.27)
The, we came, once we got to the beach, we could see the- the- the fortresses that they had there,
six to eight foot thick.
Interviewer: Yep.
Then the big guns, all they do is blow big chunks of cement out, yeah. But the soldiers were still
there and a lot of hid out in the trenches, you never knew where anything was until you walked
right up on top of it.
Interviewer: Okay.
And they were prepared for us on there.
Interviewer: Alright.
We used a lot of hand grenades.
Interviewer: Okay.
Throw ‘em over to hill.
Interviewer: So, you're still helping clear out the Germans from that area.
Yeah, you're right and that 14-mile loop across there like this.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now Trevières is only village that's inland, it's not, it's only a couple of
miles inland.

�Yeah right.
Interviewer: It’s not too far, but so that's where you headed?
Yeah that's where we're, that was our goal.
Interviewer: Okay now did you join your company outside of the town or in it?
Yes, I was all of a sudden, I was in the 23rd Regiment.
Interviewer: Okay.
And we didn't know, when I got up there, I was put in the 38th which I'm very proud of today,
yeah. And officers were well-trained. And- and Sergeant Blackmore, he watched every one of us,
and he'd see anything wrong and he grabbed you right by your gear and pull you down said,
“now what did I tell you?” you know that kind of a guy, and he kept us alive, he kept us alive.
(22.56)
Interviewer: Okay now do you start doing scouting work right away?
Right away.
Interviewer: Okay.
Right away, they- they- they assigned us to that space going up there. And- and our work was
done at night so we could get behind them and- and- and it worked out pretty good and according
to the five guys that trained us in camp, they did some tricks we didn't even know they were
there, they were there. And those are the things that we carried from the- from the basic training
and then the extra training we stay in the six months in Cardiff Wales.
Interviewer: Right.
Yeah Swansea really.
(23.40)

�Interviewer: Now when you, do you remember the first time you went out as a scout? The
first time you did a scouting.
Facin’ Germans?
Interviewer: Yeah
Okay yes, I remember real well.
Interviewer: Okay well what happened?
Yeah, we were told there and- and- and Harold was my buddy, he was always first scout, and he
was 30- 40 feet, a foot ahead of us there and- and I was down, back there and- and we were
spread out 30- 40 foot. Cause one bullet could knock off five or six guys, you know one- one
machine gun is so rapid, coming right at you. And- and we had to be careful we didn't get into
where- where they’d rap the ground, they get the ground and then raised up there and another
gun would take over after that. They had all kinds of drills and we had to solve those before they
bring up the rest of the group.
Interviewer: Right.
In there.
(24.40)
Interviewer: Okay, now what kind of country were you in?
In with s. the famous hedgerows.
Interviewer: Okay.
That was started 2,000 years before that by the Romans, so we got the history of that what we
had, and they were from four-foot-high to twelve foot high. And that they when they plowed
their fields, they’d take the big stones out, throw them on the side on their property lines and
everywhere was a hedgerow and the Germans had ‘em all spotted, probably had ‘em by number.

�And so, they’d, all they had to do is look at their map and- and it's almost wipe us out there, you
know they're that quick, and our job was to get to those guys that were with the mortars and the
artillery.
Interviewer: Right, okay so tell me about that first mission out there, I was asking your
first time out there as a scout, you said you were spread out, Harold was your first scout.
Yeah, right Harold.
Interviewer: Now what actually happened then?
(25.35)
We went out like that and all of a sudden, they stop us, there are snipers there in the woods.
They’re in the trees and you got to get them out of there.
Interviewer: Okay.
And so that's what we worked on, the cops and robbers thing we did as kids, you know.
Interviewer: Yeah, so…
And they were in the tree and I have a rifle, Italian rifle, sniper's rifle. And how it got there, I
don't know but it had a telescope on it and the whole thing, and I found it there.
Interviewer: Okay.
Because we dropped the guy out of the tree and I got his rifle, and here I am carrying a sub
Thompson and that rifle, I didn’t have any bullets for the rifle. Anyway, I did mail it home when
we did stop about 10 days more in there, but we were able to put the things we found, the
revolvers and- and the rifles and little things from the soldiers that we overrun.
Interviewer: Right, okay now how would you kind of make your way forward if you're
trying to go out on one of these missions and you’re in the hedgerow country how did you
go about doing that?

�(26.46)
We had a tank, the tanks got up there and- and they tried to go up the banks, some of them were
too high and they go tumbling down the other side, but they're all guns firing, all the time we’re
there. So, we're behind tanks.
Interviewer: Well I was asking you about when you're a scout.
Yeah right.
Interviewer: You didn’t have any tanks with you when you're a scout right?
Right, but they like to have us out ahead of them.
Interviewer: Right.
And- and- and they, some of the new officers, in my books you'll find that a number of officers
that we lost. There were people, they said, “cause he's an officer he had to be up there in front.”
No, you gotta be more than that, you have to be, really exercise that program, yeah. And we
cried like the rest of the guys when we lose an officer or one of our sergeants and that the whole
thing. We were sick about it, it made us mad that's what it is, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now I'm basically I'm just trying to sort of picture a little bit sort of
what you're doing, or in the time that you're in Normandy, I mean you start at Trevières.
Now did they capture that town after you got there, or had they captured it already?
They- they had captured it before we got there.
(28.02)
Interviewer: Okay, alright.
So, we were 3rd Battalion.
Interviewer: Right.
The 23rd and the 9th rough outfit.

�Interviewer: Okay.
They thought they were rough okay, but they- they- they got there and- and we didn't care who,
if there were any Germans in the town because the people who live there would tell us where
they where at. And the Germans knew that so they got out of the towns as fast as they could.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah, and you build up a friendship with those people and I have a couple letters from the high
school it was in Trevières.
Interviewer: Okay.
And the things like that bring back other great stories, you know.
Interviewer: Okay so when you're moving during the day would you ride on tanks and go
forward?
Not really.
Interviewer: Okay.
Not really, no, tanks never happened to us ‘till we cross the Rhine River.
Interviewer: Alright because I was trying to sort of sort out what was happening in
Normandy back at the beginning.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Now the division moves inland towards Saint-Lô and…
Saint-Lô and Trevières.
Interviewer: Yeah, after Trevières.
In a line there.
Interviewer: Well and then Saint-Lô is farther inland.
Yes right.

�(29.11)
Interviewer: Okay now the division fought a battle at a place called Hill 192.
That's- that’s what I was gonna just tell ya…
Interviewer: Okay.
The 9th and the 23rd went in there and beat ‘em up pretty good but they lost- they lost it. And they
pulled up my outfit in there, the 38th and our luck, the Germans scampered out of there. They
dropped back into Saint-Lô, because they were, we had to get that hill because they were using it
for their artillery Scouts. And in that hole works and they had built big towers on hill 90- 192 in
there and I happen to be one of lucky guys to get there first, you know.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: So, after you got there, what happened next?
We reformed- reformed into our own groups.
Interviewer: Right.
And we picked up the artillery guys and we down, go out and locate the 81 mortars, they’re the
bad news to us and the 88 artillery and they were doubly bad news and- and find them right away
and they’d radio back and- and the radios in that time was not a cell phone, it was a pack on the
back of a guy that carried a pistol, that's the only defense that guy had. But the- the officers that
were there from the artillery were giving ‘em all the places that- that we thought or maybe they
were, they were clever about moving around.
(30.48)
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.

�Interviewer: Now would the Germans try to find you?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
They know, well the Germans knew everything we did. We just had more guys, more people,
and after a while, more tanks. Right and that's where the, when I say ‘tanks,’ they had power
blades on some of ‘em.
Interviewer: Right.
They just knocked the wall, hole in the wall and bust through there and start firing a whole thing,
let us go through then, walking.
Interviewer: So that's the…
…running across the field.
Interviewer: They were doing that at the end of July when they had the breakout…
Yes.
Interviewer: …from Normandy and take Saint- Lô
You’re right, break out of Germany.
Interviewer: Okay, now while you were in Normandy still, before the breakout did you
manage to find any German batteries or guns?
Yes.
Interviewer: That your people knocked out?
Right, well we found them and located ‘em so that the artillery observers…
Interviewer: Right.
…could radio back with a guy with a big pack on his back, and, the, we had to protect him. If the
Germans tried to get our radio.

�Interviewer: Right.
That would, half of their battle’s over with then, they, but there were a lot of things like that and
I refer to cowboys and Indians and all- all the other stuff, it’s the little tricks like that that you
learn, kick the can.
(32.12)
Interviewer: Now how many men would be together if you're going out scouting, how many
of you would there be?
Ten to sixteen.
Interviewer: Okay.
That's almost the whole squad, but you don't want a squad to get wiped out because that's part of
a, the drawing, you know, map.
Interviewer: Right.
And- and- and we had to report back right away if we're losing guys, so they'd forced some guys
up, come up there in the middle of the night. And I always have the famous story there, “halt,”
you know, “what do you mean halt?” “Halt,” and- and so the guy would say, “Kellogg's,” and
you better know the answer. Do you know the answer to that?
Interviewer: I’d go with cornflakes.
That's right.
Interviewer: American culture.
That’s a simple one.
Interviewer: Yeah.
But we had stiffer ones the further out we got into the, into France.

�Interviewer: Okay now if somebody did get hit, if you took any casualties what would you
do with them?
“Medic,” you yell “medic.”
Interviewer: Well but if you're out on a patrol, did you have a medic who would be in your
squad.
Yeah, right yeah, one of the sixteen guys sometimes, one of the seventeen guys, but he just
carried the bandages you know.
(33.24)
Interviewer: Yeah, but then what would you, what could you do? I mean if one of your men
is wounded and you're behind enemy lines.
Yeah right.
Interviewer: Do you carry him out? What do you do?
Well yeah, we carry him out. We'd get him out in the, at night. We get, we had to go through the
line to get- get back with our company through the German, had to go back through the German
and they knew we were out there somewhere, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
And just say they had every hedgerow was numbered in their- their life.
Interviewer: Right, okay now once the breakout, I guess one of the things that happened at
Saint-Lô was at one point we sent large numbers of heavy bombers.
Yes 2000.
Interviewer: Yeah and did- did you hear any of that or see any of that?

�I laid in the hole watching them going by, they’re wing to wing. And- and all we were doing is
cheering, there was no, the only noise we could hear was the antiaircraft from the Germans,
yeah, but they really combed Saint-Lô out.
Interviewer: Yeah, now did you go through the town?
No.
Interviewer: Okay, you went around?
We went to Breat, we were going to Brest.
Interviewer: But to get to Brest, you had to get there somehow.
(34.32)
Yeah, the crossroads, that was a battle. Now they had a lake and a crossroads in French property
and another small time in St. Mary's something like that, that we had to run right through the
town and let the guys behind us get the Germans out of ‘em, we had to get in deep into France.
Interviewer: Right.
As deep as we could so we can get to, meet up with the 4th Division to get to Brest.
Interviewer: Right.
The submarine port and that was really protected, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now how, so Brest is all the way out at the end of Brittany.
Yes.
Interviewer: So that's a good ways from Normandy, heading west.
Right.
Interviewer: Now what happened to you during that advance?
That's where I jumped over and turned this foot to ankle here and fractured now in here in the
front part here.

�Interviewer: Okay so you- you managed to break your ankle while chasing the Germans?
Yeah, yeah, fractured really.
Interviewer: So not a full brake?
Everything was stretched because I had a pack on and I weighed 200 pounds- 220 pounds and
great shape, great shape, yeah.
(35.41)
Interviewer: Okay, so once you hurt your ankle, what did they do with you?
They- they pulled me out, it hurt, it really hurt. And- and I- and I thought it was broken at first,
so I'm crawling around my hands and knees for a while to- to let people know that there's an
open space where I was out there. And the, course we were Scouts, the whole group were Scouts
and we were all different Scouts, and they, the medic looked at it and he said, “you have to go
back to the aid center,” and so, I crawled back to the aid center and then the following day they
put me on a- a big airplane and took me back to the hospital.
Interviewer: Okay and where was the hospital?
In, of course in England.
Interviewer: Okay.
That's where they, the, that big plane landed there with a lot of P-38s my favorite airplane, the
twin Woolmer. And they put us on the plane, we're all laying down on there and the plane took
off and landed on the other side, real quick trip across that there.
(36.51)
Interviewer: Right.
And the hospital people waiting for us there and- and they had crude x-rays in those days and
they just decided that they would have to build a frame for my foot on there cause they couldn't

�see if it was broken down lower in the foot part of it, that- that foot. And might have taken the
rest of my life to have a broken bone there and they couldn't handle it, yeah.
Interviewer: So how long did you stay in the hospital?
Four weeks.
Interviewer: Okay.
Four weeks, really three weeks and I had one week of freedom. Met a lot of great people.
Interviewer: So, what did you, so could you leave the hospital?
Yes, leave the private, the grounds in fact, leave the grounds there, we’d go into town and- and it
was, its Swansea there.
Interviewer: Okay, so, you're back kind of on your home turf again.
(37.45)
Back- back there and on and- and met some guys that had about the same thing I had in there.
And one guy was from the 1st Division and they were always bumping up against us, we get
twisted around sometime, you guys get out of here you know, we're here, you know
Interviewer: That's right.
But that's the way it was because France is really a small country, everything is small.
Interviewer: Well and initially, well 1st Division went on Omaha Beach ahead of you.
Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer: And so, they were right in that same beachhead area….
Yeah, right.
Interviewer: …where you’re coming out too and several- several other times later on they
were right next to you.

�Right next to you and the paratroopers, we were still picking up paratroopers along. That's where
the joke came with ‘Kellogg's’ and the guys, he, if he'd say ‘Bran Flakes’ we'd let I'm in and
watch him.
Interviewer: Alright.
But it was cornflakes, that was the main drop off on there. And of course, they had their own
codes to.
Interviewer: Sure.
They, guys in the glider troops and that seemed to be, we were in that in the flatlands in there,
but they had to land in there where all these little, high hedgerows were at there. And a lot of
them would bury their nose of that plane right there, into the- the end of that bank that was there.
(38.59)
Interviewer: Right, okay now when did you go back to France?
I, and I went back to- to, after four weeks there and I went back to Paris.
Interviewer: Okay.
I didn't know my outfit was there, they just dropped me off and then they told me that the 2nd
battalion of Company G who was there. I thought it was great, you know so that's when I called
my two grandparents there, great-great grandparents.
Interviewer: Okay.
And the first one/ person I called was the Bulhoures [?] and they were tickled to death they
couldn't think you know, and they were gonna try to come to us. It's pretty hard- hard to do that
because we took over all the hotels there.
Interviewer: Right.
(39.45)

�We were there to guard trains from Paris, France to the front line of- of, in Belgium.
Interviewer: Right so is this September when you get back? Or is it September or?
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Alright and so you could use the French phone system to call people? Was
that how you did it?
Right, well I, the- the- the lady and the man were in the hotel, running the hotel there.
Interviewer: Okay.
…they took care of that part, so I got the Deduc [?] Castle, my grandma's there and she said,
“you know if the Germans come back here, they're gonna kill us cause we're talking to you.”
And I said, “we're here and nobody gonna kill you.”
Interviewer: Right.
“We're here,” and- and my grandfather said, he's a, when I went back to the United States a year
later, “they're a bunch of rummies over there on your grandma's side.”
Interviewer: Alright.
Anyway, it was great, it was great.
Interviewer: And when you were in Paris…
Paris.
Interviewer: …did you get time to just go see the city or?
(40.45)
Yes, I got pictures of me hugging the big part of the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe. The
both of them stand out.

�Interviewer: Yep.
And I heard about them from my grandparents before I ever thought of a war, you know.
Interviewer: Now when you were a kid did you learn any French?
Yes, I took French in junior high.
Interviewer: Okay.
Our junior high was the 9th grade, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
And I had some of the words down pretty good.
Interviewer: Okay but did your grandparents ever speak French at home?
Yes, when the- the storms were bad, we were in Lake Michigan, they would talk in French andand I, and the maid never knew it either, and I never knew how to speak French either.
Interviewer: Alright, okay so how long did you stay in Paris?
Two weeks.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah, I had two trips to the- to the front lines.
Interviewer: Okay.
Got back in the noise again.
Interviewer: Alright and so where was your division when you rejoined them, what, where
was the division now?
We- we were up in Belgium.
Interviewer: Okay.
(41.47)

�And- and pretty close to the big force there, Hurtgen Forestand we took somebody's place that
was there, and we were only gonna be there a short time, but it ended up be almost a month.
Interviewer: Alright.
And so, we deluxed our holes in the ground.
Interviewer: Okay, now when you were there were you attacking or were you just holding
your position?
Holding ground.
Interviewer: Okay.
We had to wait for the British to come up on our left over there and wait for the 4th Arm- 4th
Division and a little bit of something in the 1st Division, I never did figure that one out.
Interviewer: Okay so you weren't attacking in the Hürtgen Forest, you were just near it.
No, holding.
Interviewer: Yeah, you were holding.
Holding.
Interviewer: Okay, now did the Germans bother you while you were there?
Yes, they did, they learned how to make bom- their bombs. They'd explode above the trees andand knock all the snow down and lee- leaves, the limbs, on- on that. And so, we’d take all the
extra stuff that fell down after we survived, some guys didn't, they got caught with a shrapnel.
Interviewer: Right.
A lot of shrapnel come eighty- eights, yeah. And- and sometimes we said that they shoot right
directly into the force, right at the trees and that stuff there. And our safest place was facing the
Germans and- and behind the tree, grab a hold and wrap your arms around a tree, like our pine
forest that we have in Michigan for the CCC's.

�(43.19)
Interviewer: Yep.
The same way. And- and the forests were big time money for those people.
Interviewer: Now were you doing scouting work then?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: And so…
We go back when we didn't have a job to do, we go back maybe a mile and- and- and pull
ourselves together again because we were living out there on nothing but K-rations.
Interviewer: Right.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, now how close did you get to getting caught?
Did I? Only one bullets to hit, one of the Germans ran out of bullets and I ran out, I got carted
here bullets too.
Interviewer: Okay but did you ever, do they ever get close to capturing you?
Not, no they were dead.
Interviewer: Okay.
They ever dead.
Interviewer: Okay, so basically you didn't really have any close calls?
Oh- oh yeah, you make a mistake some time on there, but a guy will back you up on, one of your
buddies will back you up on that if you didn't see ‘em. And- and we're talking about Scouts, our
job was scouting so there was a lot of distance between us.

�Interviewer: Yep.
And they could tell us you know, and a hand signals helped, yeah.

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                <text>William Dudas was born in Sawyer, MI, just outside of Benton Harbor, in 1924. Dudas enlisted in the Army on July 29, 1943, shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. He was selected for scout training and trained at Camp Walters in Texas. Dudas spent six months training in Cardiff, Wales, preparing for the D-Day invasion and landed on Omaha beach a day or two after the first wave, joining his unit on its way to Trevieres, France. Dudas' unit participated in the Battle at Hill 192 and advanced in a rapid push to Brest where he injured his leg during the advance and was sidelined for four weeks before rejoining his unit in Paris. His unit also participated in combat in the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of the Bulge, acrossing the Rhine River, and advancing into Czechoslovakia. After the war, he left the service and attended Western Michigan University to became a high school teacher.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: William Dudas
Interview Length: (34.32)
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chloe Dingens

Part 2
Interviewer: So, when you were scouting out there, how long would you stay out?
We got, we’d hide in the daytime.
Interviewer: Yep.
And we have to watch for the flares light the whole area up just like daytime. We make sure we
can get down fast enough.
Interviewer: Okay but how many nights would you be out?
About four nights.
Interviewer: Okay.
Four nights, six days, yeah. We used to have it all marked.
Interviewer: And then how long a break would you get before you had to go back?
No, we were on duty right away, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay but you said sometimes you got to go back to the rear and recover.
(1.07)
Yeah, right to get our clothes repaired, get a- a new pair of pants, or something like that,
underwear, and that whole thing, and socks, boy.
Interviewer: Alright, now after you moved out of that area what did you do next?
Well we, they up in line, we make sure that our holes, we could be deep enough cause if they
broke tanks through on us, we could get down to the bottom of the holes.

�Interviewer: Right, I guess I was asking after you finish, you said you were about a month
near the Hurtgen Forest.
Yeah, right.
Interviewer: And then what did your unit do next?
We- we headed for one of the areas that had big name- big name, starts with a ‘W’ and,
[unintelligible] and we captured the town, the 23rd really captured the town, they then they called
us in and then they sent sixteen of us a, on a trip to get the Germans out of the town of Schmitt,
over twelve/ fifteen miles. And because they were gonna blow up the dams and they'd have
flooded our, all the areas that the British were in and part of our outfit. The 9th would have been
there, so we went through the 9th Division, the 38th and they took sixteen of us there and we went
along the shore of Roer River.
(2.35)
Interviewer: Right it's R-O-E-R.
Yeah, right.
Interviewer: Roer River, yep.
Yeah, right and we're, it took us two days, fifteen miles is one day's work, you know but a couple
days. Had to be careful that they didn't set a trap for us. No Germans, no Germans at all. It's like
somebody forgot to tell them, you know but we got the, right to the dam and the- the guy with
the radio called the artillery man there, they had word for us to come back. The Germans are
attacking on December 16.
Interviewer: Okay so…
I'll never forget the date.
Interviewer: Alright.

�I had to turn and that- had to turn and come back and a little bit of daylight too.
Interviewer: Okay and how long did it take to get back?
About two days.
Interviewer: Okay.
Because you get killed if- if they see out there, they get the mortars after you or a rifleman and,
or- or these guys they called their extra marksman, expert marksman.
Interviewer: Yeah, okay and so now you get back, now do you go back to where the 9th
Division is and then move from there?
(3.44)
Yeah, we yeah, we- we went back exactly where we know the spot where we were at.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Because we had a, at- at night we'd move out and before it got daylight, we dig a hole to stay in
that hole.
Interviewer: Right- right, but then how long did it take you to get back to the 2nd Division?
About three days?
That, we're all 2nd Divisions.
Interviewer: Yeah well, I know but you said you- you were sent off as a detachment.
Oh okay…
Interviewer: And you moved through…
Sixteen guys.
Interviewer: Yeah, those sixteen guys.
Yeah.
Interviewer: So, but then you eventually rejoin your regular company.

�Yes- yes, in fact and- and we join the- the 29th, the 23rd- the 23rd regiment.
Interviewer: Right.
E Company and we had to stop there because they had something for us to do there.
Interviewer: Right.
And so, they kept sending us back further and further and that's when we got all new clothes.
Interviewer: Okay.
(4.38)
That and not only that but the- the weather was starting to change. Snow was there and we had to
get rid of the warm or warm weather clothes that we had and put the overcoats on and that whole
thing and got right back up in- in there and then famous Falaise Gap, we pushed up right up
against that and then made that right-hand turn to go to Brest.
Interviewer: Okay, now- now you've backed us up a little bit, that was back in Normandy.
Yeah.
Interviewer: But we were talking about…
Well Normandy is all of France, the beach area.
Interviewer: Nope but that's back, but in your story, we had gotten you up along the
Belgian-German border.
Yes.
Interviewer: And started the Battle of the Bulge.
That's right.
Interviewer: So that's what I kind of wanted to get to next.
Okay well I- well I’m working my way there.
Interviewer: Alight.

�I had to add a few funny things that happened in there.
Interviewer: Okay, okay.
Well we got in there and the Germans had the tanks all lined up and along the roads Air Corps
was doing the best job they could do was make ‘em spread out and everything. Dropping bombs
on ‘em and a few of us they dropped on. And the guys with bazookas we had to make sure that
they had fresh batteries, that's how you fire a pistol.
(5.50)
Interviewer: Okay.
Not many people know.
Interviewer: I didn't know that.
Okay, but anyway, our guys, we had four or five guys in the town of Krinkelt, that was the first
town and we had ‘em stationed there so they could shoot that bazooka and take off one track and
try to move a tank with one track, all he does is make a circle, make a circle and use all his
animation up. We had three of them, we got three of them on our street right there and- and the
funny thing about it there were anti-tank guys that had bazookas not the guns, the fifty-nine
millimeter.
Interviewer: Yeah.
…cannons there because the first time the Germans that see that flash and that, they knew that,
where it was and- and we lost a lot of anti-tank guys.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Right.
Interviewer: Because the anti-tank…
I was trained in that too.

�(6.48)
Interviewer: The anti-tank and that's just a gun that's no protection for the crew.
Yeah right, right, right so we- we got the Trevières is back- back behind us about six- seven
miles on there Hill 192 is over here and Saint-Lô. We had too many troops in there and they
were digging a lotta holes that’s all you could see.
Interviewer: Okay but that's again, that's back in Normandy.
Yes.
Interviewer: Now- now when you were knocking off the tracks of the tank so that was in
Krinkelt
, that was Belgium…
Interviewer: That- that- that's Battle of the Bulge.
Battle of the Bulge started yeah.
Interviewer: Right, okay and what else do you remember about the Battle of the Bulge?
We're six days in this one house and the Germans had burned off the roof with the shells and we
were down below. And- and because big boulders, the houses were made big boulders like that,
the tanks would shoot through the windows with their one-on-one somebody we're gonna make
inner circle around down on the street. That's as far as they got, but that all stopped all of a
sudden, all they were doing, noise you’d hear you know the big cannons and that stuff back out
of the way, our cannons, 105 big stuff. And we finally got a break there, but it was cold, and we
lost- we lost Lieutenant Welsh he was, he thought he could get out the door and get over to the
next house but didn't make it. And- and we lost a corporal there too.
(8.24)
Interviewer: Okay now did you have to pull out of the house and retreat?

�No- no we- we were there with nothing that was it, they said, “you stay here.”
Interviewer: Okay.
Krinkelt.
Interviewer: Yep.
Two houses.
Interviewer: Okay.
Two towns, too many guys.
Interviewer: Yeah, I guess the, in- in the history books it says we did withdraw from those
villages eventually.
Oh yeah we withdrew with ‘em and we went back to the town where the Germans were and all
our letters and Christmas present boxes from our parents and all that stuff was spread out all
over. They opened up everything, in fact I lost the watch, my mother bought me a new watch and
sent it, so a German probably today has still got a watch there, I got there.
Interviewer: Okay.
But it- it they- they pulled us back and- and there was, they had, they figured out some way to
keep enough artillery bangin’ back for ‘em so the Germans would fall back and then we could
get out of the houses.
Interviewer: Right.
(9.31)
It didn't work that way though, we had to fight our way back…
Interviewer: Okay.
By using the- the guns we'd had there and we were getting low on ammunition because when a
guy get killed some, we take these- take his gun and his ammunition right on there and- and we

�went back and lucky me, like Paris, they sent me back to another town and I got another new set
of clothes on there. And then we got back up on the front line and then we started chasing
Germans to the Rhine River.
Interviewer: Right.
Right, and that's when the Navy came up with rubber boats and- and I don't know how they ever
got that far without losing you know a lot of guys or something, but they didn't. They had it
figure out pretty good and at midnight we jumped in the boats and went across the river and we
got over there- there were no Germans there, that was the funniest feeling you know.
(10.36)
Interviewer: Now is this when you're crossing the Rhine River?
Rhine River, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay,
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: So that's gonna be about in March now.
Well it was still cold.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Still really cold, yeah. I- I get my, sometimes I’m- I'm a month ahead.
Interviewer: Yeah.
You know, in my thinking on there.
Interviewer: The Rhine crossing started in March.
Yeah in March yeah…
Interviewer: In February were…
Well we were there before March.

�Interviewer: Yeah.
The 2nd Division our objective was Czechoslovakia.
Interviewer: Yeah.
And when you look at the maps in my book you can see the line.
Interviewer: Yeah.
And we went through all those towns.
Interviewer: But sort of thing where the Battle of the Bulge is December into January.
Yeah right, right.
Interviewer: And in January then you're attacking eastward toward Germany and toward
the Rhine
Yes.
Interviewer: You probably get to the Rhine February maybe, so you get to one side of it.
Yeah, we waited- we waited about two weeks there, digging the holes deeper and then we’d
scout we go out there and look at the Rhine you know and we'd see, try to see a mile, it was
about a mile and a quarter they said right where we were at.
Interviewer: Yeah.
And- and- and- and we had a fit because they came up there with rockets. Ten rockets in a blast.
Interviewer: Right.
(11.49)
Zip- zip- zip one right after another, ten then they go back and load it up. We didn't want the
Germans to try to find ‘em you know and here we were there.
Interviewer: So, you couldn't shoot at them.
The deep holes.

�Interviewer: So, you wouldn't shoot at them because you didn't want them to hit you.
That's right, they're right- right.
Interviewer: Okay.
We didn't want them to expose where we were.
Interviewer: Okay.
But there, a lot of houses along the river, lot a- lot a house, but we weren't allowed to do that, we
didn't storm the houses. There were troops behind us that was their job to get that, we couldn't
touch any of the prisoners at these small camps that we get the German- German captured guys
you know and that's, we weren't allowed to touch any of those guys, you couldn't shake hands or
anything we're just yell at them and because we didn't know what diseases they had.
Interviewer: Right.
And- and people don't realize that you know that whole thing, hooray they're here, you know.
Forget it stay there don't get near me.
Interviewer: So, are you passing different kinds of camps as you go forward?
Yes, yup- yup.
(12.58)
Interviewer: So, there were prisoner of war camps?
Prisoner of war camps.
Interviewer: Okay.
And they were used on the working things, building pill boxes and building roads and that type
of thing.
Interviewer: Well and the Germans also used a lot of slave laborers from other European
countries.

�Right.
Interviewer: So, and then there were the concentration camps where they had Jews and…
Concentration camps, Polish people.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah.
Okay they're putting their hands through the barbed wire and trying to touch us, and we were…
Interviewer: Don't- don't touch your microphone by the way.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
They're trying to touch us in there and- and- and they warned us every day, we got tired of it you
know. We weren't gonna touch them anyway but they're so glad, they're crying and yelling and
screaming you know, hooray, they're here.
Interviewer: Yeah, now were you able to give them food or do they tell you not too?
I don't know, we don't know because we were ahead.
Interviewer: Okay.
Our job was Czechoslovakia.
Interviewer: Alright now as you were, so when you cross the Rhine did you cross the Rhine
in boats, in rubber boats or?
Rubber boats, yeah that the Navy had ‘em there.
(14.02)
Interviewer: Alright.
Yeah and- and we came out nobody shooting at us, like something happened, shut the war off or
something there, a lot of noise.
Interviewer: And then…

�A lot of flares.
Interviewer: And now you're marching across Germany.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Now were you still doing your scouting missions?
Yes, we were cause…
Interviewer: Where you still going up ahead?
And I could have cried when I had to put a- a phosphorus bomb in the cockpit of a Stuka
bomber, I did it, I made it as a- a kid, found my balsa wood and all that.
Interviewer: Right.
And all that as a kid and I had it hang in the ceiling it was- it was probably 18 inches long and
the whole thing, here I had to get into the cockpit and just drop it down in there, all the controls
and it was gone, phosphorous bombs we carried ‘em on our clothes like hand grenades.
Interviewer: Right, right.
(14.55)
The hand grenades wouldn't have helped at all, this we burned ‘em.
Interviewer: So, yeah so you- so you found a German dive bomber just sitting out there?
Well it, yeah, they had, this was a repair base.
Interviewer: Okay.
Or something like that.
Interviewer: Okay.
And- and we had orders, “burn ‘em”. Yeah, and- and how did they know they were there? When
they’d fly over, who cares up there, they don't worry about it but on the ground, we got to, had to
burn them and we did the same thing to their barracks, we burned them.

�Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Now did you meet much opposition, were the Germans…
Not- not too much.
Interviewer: Okay.
Not too much, there's numerous towns where the guys had to get tough with youngsters that
maybe were 12, 14, 15 years old, bad news.
Interviewer: Yeah.
And- and we put ‘em down the floor, face down on the floor, stay right there and if they even
rolled over, we lay one on ‘em you know. You take your bayonet on and stick it on the end of
your gun, that stopped a lot of things yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
We learned those things from- from basic training, yeah.
(16.03)
Interviewer: Okay what were these kids doing, how were they behaving that made you
have to deal with them?
Well they were surprised we were there.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah, this is, it was just getting near the center of well maybe 50 miles into Germany.
Interviewer: Right.
And then all of a sudden General Patton, George Patton sent the 3rd Armored Division over to the
2nd Division, 38th Infantry and I was one of the lucky ones and you'll see the pictures of my tank
with the guys hanging on to it.

�Interviewer: So, now you got to ride on a tank?
Got to ride on a tank, yep.
Interviewer: Alright and is that, and did you stay with the tanks and go all the way to
Czechoslovakia that way?
To the border.
Interviewer: Okay.
To the boarder.
Interviewer: Alright.
And then you got off and started to walk again. We were in friendly company there and the- the
Czechs would tell us if there were any Germans in there, so we moved along pretty fast, in fact
sometimes we had the trucks carry us 6x6 as they called.
(17.06)
Interviewer: Yep.
They put probably 20 guys in there who were shoulder-to-shoulder inside that thing, maybe three
in the seat with the driver, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay and where were you when the war ended in Europe?
In Pilsen.
Interviewer: Okay.
My dad's parents’ hometown.
Interviewer: Okay.
Can you believe that I had it in- in Paris there and Dudas is spelled Dudar there,
Interviewer: So…
D-U-D-A-R and- and that's because R’s and S’s when you write them, look the same.

�Interviewer: Okay so your father's family came from Czechoslovakia.
From Pilsen.
Interviewer: And then they moved to France and then they moved to the U.S.?
No, the- the ones in Paris moved right to the United States.
Interviewer: Right.
World Fair's 1889, World's Fairs.
Interviewer: World’s Fair okay sure.
That started it for us in 1933.
(18.01)
Interviewer: Okay.
And I read- I rode the skyrocket- the skyrocket in Chicago.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Way up above the air- the area there I don't want to slip back a little bit here.
Interviewer: Now that’s- that's your figuring it out yeah…
Alright but if Grandma and Grandpa from Paris, they came from Pilsen, Czechoslovakia. My
father's parents.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah never close to them at all, they lived in Cicero and they were all members of the group and
Cicero Illinois, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, alright now when you got to Pilsen did you ever see any of the
Russians?
Yes, I saw ‘em trying, comin’ on the bridge and they got to there where we had it written on in
English, “stop or you're gonna be shot.” That's the way we put it and they're probably some guys

�did get there because they were on guard probably a hundred- football field away, anyway from
that tank that was in the middle of the bridge and…
(19.04)
Interviewer: Okay so you saw the Russians in the distance?
4th Division finally took it over and that.
Interviewer: Okay alright, now so how long did you stay in Czechoslovakia?
I was there about two months.
Interviewer: Okay.
They had me and- and my, I'd say the whole Company G was there and in my book you see
pictures of the guys, I took pictures of them because I was the first one let out, I had five
campaigns in, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay so your company was still there?
Yeah.
Interviewer: When you got this, when you were told you could go home.
Go home, yeah.
Interviewer: You had enough points, okay.
That was a long trip, I have a couple weeks.
Interviewer: Okay, tell me, I want to ask some other things. Did you see many German
prisoners of war? Captured Germans, did you see them?
No because we went by those people.
Interviewer: Okay.
We saw thousands of those German guys walking, told go the back behind us.
(20.05)

�Interviewer: Okay.
They were prisoners really, but we were on tanks.
Interviewer: Right.
They’d go off to the side of the road, even walk in the gullies on the side of the road because we
had the big tanks and you'll see the pictures of the tanks.
Interviewer: And- and what did they look like to you?
Torn, worn out.
Interviewer: And were they about your age or older or younger?
Well there were some areas that we- we caught some of those guys when we were in Belgium,
younger 14- 15- 16 years old.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay so they have kids.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Did you see older men too?
Not- not too many.
Interviewer: Okay.
Maybe around the- the- the buildup fortresses.
Interviewer: Right.
That they had in different places, but don't let the churches fool you, that was a motto we had,
don't let the churches fool you with these snipers were up in the tower up there. And we’d get the
tank up there and take the top right off the tower, yeah. You hate that you know.
(21.12)

�Interviewer: Yeah.
And I'm kind of a religious person and I always think I'm home when I see a church, you know
so.
Interviewer: Okay and then how did the people in Czechoslovakia treat you?
They loved us, we have a- we have our own business office in Pilsen today and I’ll give ya a
story with Pilsen.
Interviewer: Okay.
I wanted to go to Pilsen because I heard about the office there and all the fun they were having
there and I got a letter from a congressman and he says, “you can't go over this year, they're
having a few problems over there.” And- and I've never been able to figure out anything and I
was gonna, I wanted to go to Pilsen and see if I could find any Dudas’s there and go back to
Paris that way, get a plane there to come back to the States there. I had dreams of this, go doing
that.
Interviewer: Okay.
But it didn't work out that way and- and- and I have a lady that takes care of sending troops or us
back over there and that and we're pretty good friends, and she has the agency that does that over
there. She had a fit when that congressman wrote me- wrote me the letter said, “don't go this year
anyway.”
Interviewer: Okay what year was that?
(22.38)
What year was that? I'll have to see about 2001 maybe in there, 2002.
Interviewer: Okay.
That’s just were in ‘15 now.

�Interviewer: Yeah, I don't know what was going on then, I mean other than maybe after we
went into Iraq or Afghanistan.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Or something, they were worried about something but…
Yeah right- right- right.
Interviewer: Anyway, okay.
Yeah, my and we were really into that war there, the 23rd is all gone now if they've all been sent
home. The 9th was in Afghanistan and they're still there but they're currently gonna come home
too, we have different names now.
Interviewer: Right now, are there other things when you think about the time that you
spent in Europe during the war, are there other memories that kind of stand out for you?
(23.29)
Well, being in the front, everyone’s different, everything was different, and the- and the most
different thing was getting to Brest because Patton hadn't pulled up with his big group up there
yet, to spread out from Marseille, and spread out along there. That big wave there and then we
were from the beach and there had to make contact with them. And we still had glider troops and
paratroopers, you know. Either all shot up or something and- and the pair, or the people in
France would tell us about where they're at there, they’d pull ‘em in there and try to get ‘em well
and the whole thing.
Interviewer: Cause they were scattered all over Brittany, the area you’re going through.
All- all over Brittany, the Loire that's the good word yeah.
Interviewer: Because that had still been behind German lines for a long time before you got
there.

�Yep, long time, yeah.
(24.25)
Interviewer: Okay so you're rescuing those guys…
Yeah right, well we heard about ‘em and- and maybe the lieutenants and the sergeants were
going and look at ‘em, would, not us. We had one thing to do is look and see if Germans were
right in front of us.
Interviewer: Right- right.
And when we didn't see ‘em, we were worried about it yeah, right. And- and- and I and on the
way to Brest I lost- I lost that part of my being in the service, you know going back to the
hospital and then going back to Paris, which was great. And it- it Harold has died a year ago and,
in my notes, and that whole thing I got his, I have his obituary in the- in the- in the book in there.
Interviewer: Okay and then one of the men in your squad wrote a book?
No, he didn't write it, his son.
Interviewer: His son wrote it, okay that's it.
His son and- and he has a feeling just totally, how he felt, how his brother felt and his- his
brothers, the, Harold's really a sharp guy, he was number one scholar. He was smarter than I was,
he was a year older, but we had fun there bluffing the Germans, you know.
(25.44)
Interviewer: Okay.
And they probably did it to us too, we didn't know, yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah alright but you must've been pretty good at it because you're still alive.
Yes yeah.
Interviewer: Alright.

�Yeah, they, up there they're watching me, you know. I got a grandma up there watching me too.
Interviewer: Something. Alright now you got your orders to tell you it's time to go home.
Right.
Interviewer: Then what happens?
Well they came in and- and there are only two of us that have five campaigns and that was 90
points.
Interviewer: Right.
Right there.
Interviewer: Right, and so then what happens?
And then they put us on a train, and we spent a week in Nürnberg, where Hitler started this
whole thing here and I have a- a nut, and a bolt, and a washer, brass, that big. I took off the Eagle
that some smart guy in the tank corps blew it right off with a gun, you know, but I- I was again II got a wrench from one of tankers and I went up there and I took it off and I have it, it's on
display in the Granville museum.
(26.51)
Interviewer: Very good.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Alright.
And the kids all wanted to handle it, I give it to, and I was teaching classes and- and- and second
graders they can't wait to put your uniform on, the jacket and the whole thing and we do that so
they get a feeling.
Interviewer: Sure.
Of what we're doing.

�Interviewer: Alright.
And some parents had a fit, but that's all the kids talk about when they go home.
Interviewer: Well yeah, okay so you spend a week in Nürnberg and then do they put- put
you on another train then?
Another train, yeah.
Interviewer: Where do you go?
We waited until more soldiers came.
Interviewer: Right.
…up there and we were right in the center where Hitler started the whole war/works, yeah.
Interviewer: Right, and then where did you ship out from?
From Antwerp.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: And what kind of ship were you on?
Same one, Île de France, going the other way, yeah. I was so surprised about it but boy I was sick
all the way, not sick going over but coming back, yeah.
Interviewer: Was the weather worse?
Well not really, but I had lost so much weight. I was- I was I'll have to say 225, I was 155.
(27.58)
Interviewer: Okay.
The eating you know wasn't all up to standards in- in that part of it.
Interviewer: Yeah.

�And I have 26 medicines I take every day, I take 13 in- in the morning, and 13 at night, my
daughter has it in little boxes every day as mentioned there.
Interviewer: Alright.
Yeah.
Interviewer: So, and then where did you land in the U.S.?
Orangeburg, I'm quite sure it's Orangeburg, yeah because they gave me a day in Paris or in New
York City.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah you, they had it all set for you.
Interviewer: Okay.
USO?
Interviewer: Yeah.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay so you go into Camp, probably Camp Shanks or someplace like that.
That- that yeah that’s- that's a familiar name.
Interviewer: Right.
Well we came back fast, so, we came back fast then I went to- to Shreveport, Louisiana.
Interviewer: Okay.
And they said, “Dudas, you stay here.” And I- I- I- I had called my parents down where I’m at
and I'm still alive you know, and they said that, “you have to talk to a couple of psychiatrists, we
told him your trauma.” Was true, I wake up at night screaming, yelling my guys, you know.
(29.20)
Interviewer: Okay.

�Right and- and so they put me in at one end of the first day there, walked into the mess hall, and
they waved me down, there was a man sitting there and a- a lady soldier taking notes and the last
thing he said to me, “Dudas, if you ever stopped working, you're gonna die,” and I get down to
the other end there's another psychiatrist, he said the same thing, “Dudas, if you stop working
you're gonna die, you work 24 hours a day.” And- and- and- and I was scared you know the
whole thing I didn’t know what…
Interviewer: What did they mean by that?
That I keep busy.
Interviewer: Okay.
Keep busy.
Interviewer: So…
And that's- that’s what I did. And give you an example I taught school, drove a school bus, and I
had athletic teams, and I worked for Johnson Park, Kent County.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: So, when you…
In the park system.
(30.18)
Interviewer: So how long did you have to stay in Shreveport, was that just a short time or?
A month.
Interviewer: Okay.

�They- they- they gave you small tests and that sort of thing and I had trouble with this ear, that's
the one that about ten days I couldn't hear too well but I wasn't gonna go anywhere, I- I stayed
with my group.
Interviewer: Okay, now when did that happen to you?
That happened on the way to Trevières.
Interviewer: Okay so right at the beginning.
Going to Brest.
Interviewer: Okay to Brest, okay front of the trip here, alright so then once you got back
home again what did you do?
I- I got a big, my dad talked to somebody and they were building GI homes and- and I'm- and
I’m a carpenter.
Interviewer: Okay.
I've been a carpenter ever since my grandfather let me build on the house when I was a little kid.
And a good carpenter.
(31.14)
Interviewer: Okay now how long did you do that?
And I had to finish high school.
Interviewer: Okay.
So, the high school was first right in here because I wanted to go to college.
Interviewer: Okay.
And I want to go to Notre Dame and play football, want to be an architect all because of my
grandma and grandpa.
Interviewer: Right.

�And when the- the athletic director from Notre Dame saw me in the office there he said, “what
happened to you?” When he saw me when I weighed 220 pounds as a combination end on the
football team, that's- that's what I wanted do, play football for that and be with my hero Errol, I
forgot the name while I was there I'll say Errol Brown All-American from Benton Harbor.
Interviewer: Okay so the coach at Notre Dame had seen you before you went over?
Yeah Athletic director yeah- yeah.
Interviewer: Okay so they'd seen you and they thought you'd be a good recruit.
Yeah, and they gave me a shot at that, I wanted to play pro football and go to the Bears.
(32.18)
Interviewer: Alright but now you come back and they look at you.
Yeah.
Interviewer: That's not gonna work.
My mother hardly recognized me.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: So, where did…
Six foot and thin.
Interviewer: Yeah, so, where did you go to college?
Western.
Interviewer: Okay.
I went there, my lady friend, she was going there so we went there, and she was in the home ec
department and I was in Destler's art department.
Interviewer: Okay.

�Four years there and I worked for, there, never stopped working, I didn't stop there and- and
Superman and Dr. Weber, the history department, I had to go in there and check out, I was
supposed to learn something in history and he said, “can you cut wood, trim steel, anything like
that?” I said, “I sure can.” He said, “you're gonna work.” And my second week in college I had a
solid job there, yeah. I worked the night shift till 9:00- 10:00 o'clock and I still had to study,
yeah.
(33.23)
Interviewer: And so then when you graduated you went right to your high school job or
the, you went to Grandville then?
Yeah, I came right to Grandville and we sign our contracts a year before we graduated, we were
going right there.
Interviewer: Okay, and how long did you teach in Granville?
35 years.
Interviewer: Alright.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Alright now when you think back to the time that you spent in the service,
how do you think that affected you? Or what did you take out of it?
Well, the two psychologists said, “you ever stop working you're gonna die,” and it certainly he
was right, and he told the same thing to Harold, and a- a- a guy that you would appreciate, he
was smooth as glass.
Interviewer: Alright now do you think that you learned, yeah, do you think you- you
learned anything from being in the army?
Yes- yes you get a- a- a broader view of the population, yeah.

�(34.19)
Interviewer: Alright.
Right.
Interviewer: Alright well I just like to thank you for coming in and telling your story today.
Right.
Interviewer: Alright, that’ll do it.
I haven't told this in a long time.
Interviewer: Alright.

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                <text>William Dudas was born in Sawyer, MI, just outside of Benton Harbor, in 1924. Dudas enlisted in the Army on July 29, 1943, shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. He was selected for scout training and trained at Camp Walters in Texas. Dudas spent six months training in Cardiff, Wales, preparing for the D-Day invasion and landed on Omaha beach a day or two after the first wave, joining his unit on its way to Trevieres, France. Dudas' unit participated in the Battle at Hill 192 and advanced in a rapid push to Brest where he injured his leg during the advance and was sidelined for four weeks before rejoining his unit in Paris. His unit also participated in combat in the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of the Bulge, acrossing the Rhine River, and advancing into Czechoslovakia. After the war, he left the service and attended Western Michigan University to became a high school teacher.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Louis Dudeck 2
Vietnam War
Interview Length: (01:35:38:00)
[Note: This interview was conducted to supplement the original one done several years earlier,
and to fill in gaps in the original interview and clarify some of the details of his service in
Vietnam.]
Pre-enlistment / Boot Camp (00:00:52:00)
 Dudeck was born in 1943 in the small town of Bloomer, Wisconsin; the town is in the
northwest part of Wisconsin, about one hundred miles to the south and east of
Minneapolis-St. Paul (00:00:52:00)
 While going through high school, girls and athletics were the primary things keeping
Dudeck in high school; Dudeck ended up graduating with either a C- or a D+ grade
average (00:01:28:00)
 Dudeck graduated from high school in 1962 and during his senior year, he had a job
operating a small pool hall (00:01:42:00)
o Dudeck knew the man who had owned the pool hall before him and the other man
wanted to get out of the business; Dudeck saw an opportunity to make a little
extra money, so he took over (00:02:04:00)
o His father set him up with a couple of pool tables plus a hot dog cooker, a pop
machine (00:02:18:00)
 While Dudeck was growing up, his father was in the candy business, working for the
Curtiss Candy Company; Dudeck’s father would go to various areas and sell candy to
local stores and restaurants (00:02:34:00)
o It was Dudeck’s step-father who worked for the candy company; Dudeck’s
biological father passed away in 1950 (00:02:56:00)
 His biological father owned a small jewelry shop and when he died, Dudeck’s mother
took over the business and sold it just before she re-married (00:03:03:00)
 Dudeck’s brother was in the Marine Corps and Dudeck remembers his brother coming
home and telling stories about the Cuban Missile Crisis (00:03:24:00)
o Dudeck’s brother was stationed at Guantanamo Bay at the time and told stories of
how the Cubans would come up to the perimeter of the base and harass the
Marines inside (00:03:36:00)
o According to Dudeck’s brother, the Marines scared the Cubans away by firing
sling-shots at them (00:03:43:00)
 Dudeck’s brother was Dudeck’s hero and Dudeck figured that if his brother could make it
in the Marines, then so could he (00:03:51:00)
o Dudeck was a sickly child growing up, suffering from several bouts of rheumatic
fever and active tuberculosis; therefore, when Dudeck went to his parents to say
he wanted to join the Marines, their first response was that the Marines were not
going to want to take him (00:04:01:00)

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However, his parents’ doubt just made Dudeck more intent on joining the
Marines (00:04:20:00)
o One day, after a night of drinking, Dudeck ended up in the recruiting office in Eau
Claire, Wisconsin and lo-and-behold, the Marines did take him (00:04:30:00)
Dudeck ended up enlisting around August/September of 1963, when he was nineteen
years old and a little over a year after he graduated (00:04:53:00)
In order to get to boot camp, Dudeck took a flight out of Eau Claire; on the way to
California, the airplane Dudeck was on had a little trouble over Arizona, with one of the
engines catching fire (00:05:16:00)
Dudeck was sent to San Diego, California for boot camp and from what he can
remember, there was someone waiting for him when he arrived (00:05:42:00)
o Dudeck remembers there being a couple of uniformed Marines collecting recruits
from the flight, which had a fair number of recruits onboard (00:06:01:00)
The uniformed Marines collected the recruits and held them before taking them to the
MCRD (Marine Corps Recruit Depot); Dudeck and the other new recruits arrived at the
MCRD around one o’clock in the morning (00:06:19:00)
o In order to get to the depot, the recruits were placed on a large bus, where they
had to sit three to a seat; Dudeck, who is not a small man himself, was squeezed
between two black men (00:06:46:00)
 Being from Wisconsin, Dudeck thinks those were the first two black men
that he had ever seen (00:07:04:00)
o The uniformed Marines did not act like drill instructors; their job was to act as
“wranglers”, organizing all the recruits and making sure to get them onto the bus
to the MCRD (00:07:21:00)
o The shouting came “like a thunderclap” when the bus pulled into the MCRD;
Dudeck believes that there were more than a couple of recruits who “messed
themselves right then and there” (00:07:41:00)
o Not everything was as “correct” back then as it is today; today, the drill
instructors cannot touch the recruits, they have to act respectfully towards the
recruits, they cannot use obscenities, etc. (00:08:08:00)
 However, during Dudeck’s training, that sort of stuff was fair game for the
drill instructors; if someone was not moving fast enough, he was propelled
towards the exit, with a few expletives along the way (00:08:24:00)
o Dudeck remembers getting off the bus, “flying” towards any set of the footprints
on the ground outside, and trying to make sure that his feet were properly set at a
45° angle (00:08:49:00)
 Because of his brother, Dudeck knew what was coming, which gave him a
distinct advantage over the other recruits; Dudeck’s brother explained that
there were things you do and things you don’t do (00:09:17:00)
 For one thing, Dudeck did not want to stand out; you did not want
to be the very best at doing something but you also did not want to
be the very worst either (00:09:28:00)
o However, because Dudeck was tall, he had a tough time not
standing out; the drill instructors had a penchant for picking
on the bigger recruits but that was fine with Dudeck
because they could not break him (00:09:42:00)

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On a couple of occasions, Dudeck and the other big
men would be invited for “consultations”; the other
men would hear stuff moving around and then see
the recruits just walking out (00:10:15:00)
 Dudeck believes the “consultations” were merely a
test in order to see what type of men the individual
recruits were (00:10:57:00)
 The purpose of the training was to build the recruits into the image and
likeness of Marines; therefore, the instructors took what they had,
removed all the peripherals from civilian life, and put in what they wanted
the recruits to know (00:11:03:00)
o Dudeck went through his initial physical while still in Wisconsin and only had a
small physical done after he arrived in San Diego, before he and the other recruits
went into the receiving barracks (00:11:32:00)
 Dudeck withheld some of his medical history, specifically because he did
not want to be sent home (00:11:52:00)
 Dudeck and the other recruits also did aptitude testing, although not until
four or five days after they had arrived at the MCRD (00:12:07:00)
Dudeck had an advantage over some of the other recruits in that he had been an athlete in
high school, although he had slacked off in the year after his graduation; prior to Dudeck
enlisting, his brother told him to start running (00:12:25:00)
o Dudeck weighed 187lbs when he went into boot camp and he weighed 187lbs
when he finished boot camp (00:12:41:00)
o Dudeck never really had any problem meeting the physical requirements for the
training, such as running, calisthenics, hand-to-hand combat, etc.; on the other
hand, a lot of the other recruits had trouble and several were dropped back a
couple of weeks so they could work on their fitness (00:12:56:00)
 The worst thing for any of the recruits was being set back a couple of
weeks because that meant the recruit had to do all of the training over
again (00:13:24:00)
 All the overweight recruits were separated out and sent to the “fat boys
platoon” (00:13:57:00)
o Dudeck made it a point that he would never fall out during training; he might be
dying but in the process of dying, he would trying to do one more push-up
(00:14:14:00)
 Some of the recruits did fall out and they suffered at the hands of the drill
instructors, who were grueling (00:14:28:00)
Dudeck remembers all of his drill instructors, including the staff sergeant who was the
training company commander and a corporal who was only 5’3” and 120lbs but was the
meanest of all the drill instructors (00:14:44:00)
o Dudeck never had any hard feelings against the drill instructors because he knew
what they were doing; he did not object, just went with the program, and tried to
stay in the middle (00:15:30:00)
Around 10% of Dudeck’s training company ended up washing out of the training
entirely; these were often people with either little education or were from the larger cities
and who saw themselves as tough (00:15:57:00)

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o Either way, those men had trouble adapting to life in the Marines and the drill
instructors would run them right out of the training (00:16:21:00)
o Dudeck does not know how the drill instructors determined whether someone
would be able to turn around or whether they were simply not going to be able to
make the grade (00:16:29:00)
 There some tough, hotshot kids who turned into tough, hotshot Marines
but there were others who were exactly the same who ended up washing
out (00:16:41:00)
During the training, one of Dudeck’s good friends turned out to be an American Indian
who was also from Wisconsin (00:17:18:00)
o Dudeck’s training company had several American Indians; 20% of the training
company was African-American, 10% was Hispanic-American, a handful of
Asian-Americans, and the remainder were poor, white kids (00:17:28:00)
o One of the drill instructors was African-American and he dealt heavily with the
African-American recruits; whenever one of the African-American recruits did
not cut it, Dudeck believes that drill instructor took it personally (00:18:05:00)
 One of the African-American recruits arrived at boot camp wearing a
derby-style hat; when it became time for the recruits to ship all their
civilian clothes home, for whatever reason, that recruit thought he would
be able to keep the derby hat (00:18:44:00)
 The first time there was an inspection, the drill instructors found
the hat; the African-American drill instructor took the recruit aside,
roughed him up, and the recruit was eventually pulled out of
Dudeck’s training company (00:19:19:00)
 The morning after the recruit was pulled out, there was a pile of
candy bars outside the duty hut that the other recruits had been
hiding (00:19:47:00)
On a daily basis, the recruits would wake up at 5 a.m. to do PT (physical training) for
roughly an hour, after which the recruits ran to breakfast; after breakfast, the recruits did
more PT before going to some sort of class (00:20:22:00)
o This was the schedule for the first couple of weeks, during which the recruits
were asked about their history and had to do tests; it was all done so the recruits
could get acclimated (00:20:51:00)
 The recruits had longer to do these things back then because the boot
camp was longer (00:21:15:00)
o After the first couple of weeks, the recruits got into the “meat and potatoes” part
of the training, such as: hand-to-hand combat, running the obstacles courses,
classes on Marine Corps history, basic weapons instruction, etc. (00:21:45:00)
 The recruits also did more testing in order to determine where they would
go once they had finished training (00:22:25:00)
 A lot of the training becomes a blur because everything was repetitive;
nothing was ever done only once (00:23:02:00)
 The recruits spent two weeks on the rifle range doing their first
qualifications using the M-14 rifle (00:23:19:00)
o By the time the recruits got into the heavy-duty training, Dudeck had established
himself and was not used for demonstrations (00:24:24:00)

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Some of the other men who were having a little bit more trouble were used
for the demonstrations (00:24:40:00)
As the recruits approached graduation from boot camp, everything changed; there were
little things that might seem insignificant to an outside but were major things for the
recruits (00:25:10:00)
o For example, when the recruits first arrived for boot camp and were issued
uniforms, the uniforms hung on the men like rags and did not even look like a
uniform; however men who had become Marines actually looked like Marines,
with properly bloused trousers and shine boots (00:25:23:00)
 About two weeks before graduation, the recruits were issued blousing
garters, which was a big deal for the recruits; it meant the drill instructors
were starting to think of them a bit differently (00:25:47:00)
 In “blousing their trousers”, the recruits rolled their trouser legs up so the
trouser legs did not lay right down on the in-step of the boot (00:26:30:00)
o As well, the drill instructors started talking with the recruits was opposed to
screaming at them (00:26:58:00)
o By that point, the recruits were expected to know a little bit about what they were
supposed to be doing (00:27:05:00)
 For example, the close-order drill became a source of pride amongst the
recruits in order to see which platoon would be the best (00:27:20:00)
o The recruits did have a graduation ceremony when they finished boot camp,
which was quite spectacular (00:28:19:00)
 All of the MCRD was in attendance, as well as the recruits’ parents and
high-ranking officers (00:28:24:00)
 The feeling that Dudeck had during the ceremony was something he never
felt before in his life or has felt since, save for maybe the birth of his firstborn child (00:28:59:00)
At the end boot camp, Dudeck knew that he was going to be a standard Marines grunt,
as were all the other recruits in his training company; Dudeck cannot remember anyone
not become a grunt at that time (00:29:14:00)

Infantry Training Regiment / Camp Pendleton (00:29:27:00)
 After finishing boot camp, Dudeck was sent to join an Individual Training Regiment
(ITR) at Camp Pendleton, California (00:29:27:00)
o Once he joined the ITR, Dudeck was assigned to a weapons platoon; specifically,
he was assigned to work with an M-60 machine gun (00:29:33:00)
o The ITR lasted four weeks and was extremely different than boot camp; the men
were given a little bit of individual freedom and did not have to constantly look
around to see who was watching them (00:29:42:00)
o The ITR training was much more detailed in terms of focusing on basic tactics,
how to properly use the weapons, etc. (00:30:07:00)
 At that point, the trainers were trying to sort out which Marines could do
what (00:30:20:00)
 When Dudeck first joined the ITR, he was assigned the job of
being an ammo carrier for an M-60 machine gun; apart from his

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own rifle and ammunition, Dudeck carried several cans worth of
ammunition for the machine gun (00:30:39:00)
 As the men moved up and down the mountains in the base, the
trainers were able to establish a pecking order of who could handle
carrying the heavy M-60 and who could not (00:30:51:00)
o Dudeck quickly found himself carrying around the M-60 as
opposed to the ammunition (00:31:26:00)
 While in ITR, the Marines were able to “play with all the toys”, training
with everything from flamethrowers and 3.5in rockets to the M-60 and the
.50 caliber M2 (Ma Deuce) machine gun (00:31:48:00)
 The men were even able to fire the old-fashioned water-cooled and
air-cooled .30 caliber machine guns (00:32:10:00)
 The men also trained with 81mm and 60mm mortars as well as
older M1 Garand rifles (00:32:23:00)
 At that point, it was still not exactly clear who would be doing
what, so the men just trained with everything (00:32:42:00)
The four weeks of ITR went really fast; there was so much that the Marines had to learn
before they were assigned to the FMF (Fleet Marine Force) (00:32:55:00)
Dudeck remembers receiving his first leave home after finishing ITR and he remembers
watching the funeral of President Kennedy on the television at his home (00:33:34:00)
Dudeck had a thirty-day leave and he remembers begin ordered back to join a company,
Charlie 1/5 [C Company, 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment], at Camp Pendleton
(00:34:03:00)
o When he arrived at the unit, the commanders started hollering that all the men
were to fall out with their uniforms and weapons; the men thought that they might
be going to war with Russia if something happened as a result of President
Kennedy’s assassination (00:34:31:00)
o Although there were some squad and platoon leaders already in the unit, for the
most part, all the men in the company were coming back from their leaves
following the end of ITR en masse (00:35:19:00)
o Overall, it was a spooky time because the men did not know if the Russians were
going to try something (00:35:36:00)
o The heightened state-of-alert lasted for a couple of days to a week before the men
started doing things that they would normally do at the company-level, which was
mostly training in anticipation of deployment somewhere (00:35:57:00)
In Dudeck’s opinion, he and the other Marines were completely unprepared for a
deployment to Vietnam (00:36:34:00)
o The Marines were meant to be a shock force intended to take ground while
fighting on a fairly conventional battlefield; the Marines would take hills or
territory and leave the area to someone else before moving on (00:36:43:00)
o However, up until that point, the men had not received any sort of jungle training;
although they did receive some before deploying to Vietnam, the men could have
received more (00:37:10:00)
o Most of the training the men had received was conventional, such as fire-andmaneuver (00:37:39:00)

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Nevertheless, a lot of the training was cool and fun to do; although
Dudeck made light of the training, it was still serious business
(00:37:53:00)
 The men did do amphibious training, which was one of the most fun
things they did (00:38:28:00)
 The men did the training right on the beaches of San Diego, mixed
right in with the sunbathers and beach-goers
 (00:38:42:00)
 Prior to the “landing”, the men would be taken out in large landing
crafts and they would practice climbing over the sides of the crafts
and into small rubber boats (00:39:08:00)
o Over times, the landing crafts would be driving straight
onto the beach (00:39:17:00)
o The water was very, very cold and because the surf was
high, a lot of the times, some of the men would end up in
the water (00:39:21:00)
 The amphibious training ended up being nothing the men ever used
in Vietnam apart from when they arrived and went ashore for the
first time (00:39:36:00)
 The men also trained with amphibious vehicles, AMTRACs,
although nobody really liked them, partially because the vehicles
had a history of sinking out from under the men and because they
were not very good in the heavy surf (00:39:51:00)
o They could pack fifteen to twenty men in each of the
vehicles and it was usually better than walking; however,
even when the vehicles were used in Vietnam, Dudeck
preferred walking over having to ride in one (00:40:37:00)
It seemed like most all of the men in Dudeck’s company had a girlfriend in California
and whenever the men had time off, they would go visit their girlfriend and go to
different places (00:41:23:00)
o The men also made frequent trips into nearby Mexico, with Tijuana being one of
the stopping off points (00:41:53:00)
 One time, all of Dudeck’s squad had gone to Mexico and when they
returned, they tried to check out their machine guns and go back, “because
they had a little job to take care of” (00:41:57:00)
 Having taking Spanish in high school, Dudeck tried to use it once when a
couple of the men were locked up in jail; finally, a Mexican cop told
Dudeck to shut his mouth and leave (00:42:24:00)
The men did a lot of training in the mountains, such as cold weather training; the men
would do operations all day and into the night and by the time they woke up the next
morning, the water in their canteens had frozen (00:43:13:00)
o The men also did a lot of training in the Cleveland National Forest, which largely
consisted of scrub brush (00:43:50:00)
 At one point, the men were dropped off at a location with a couple of
baked potatoes, a bag of rice, a couple of a canteens of water and a large
supply of halizone tablets and told to survive for ten days (00:44:06:00)

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The men had to find their own sources of food apart from the
baked potatoes and rice (00:44:26:00)
 During the exercise, the men operated in small, squad-sized groups
and each group had someone along with them that knew how to
survive in the area (00:44:35:00)
 At the end of the 10-day operation, the men were supposed to have a mock
battle against a company of Recon Marines (00:45:15:00)
 After Dudeck’s company had gathered back together, they had to
scout the hill that the Recon Marines had occupied (00:45:36:00)
 As they scouted the hill, Dudeck remembers looking out from
behind a rock and seeing the Recon Marine commander, a large
Native American, standing on a rock with his arms crossed and
occasionally scanning with his binoculars (00:46:04:00)
 Dudeck and the other men retreated back down the hill and snuck
around to the other side, where a re-supply truck was coming up a
road to the top of the hill (00:46:58:00)
o The men ambushed and took control of the truck and had
Dudeck’s squad climb in the back (00:47:12:00)
 The men drove the truck right up to the Recon Marine’s CP,
captured the company’s First Sergeant, then commander, placed
both men inside the truck, and drove away (00:47:22:00)
o The men also trained with armor forces, riding on tanks at the Marine Corps in
Twenty-nine Palms, California (00:47:59:00)
 The training was serious because it involved coordinating between the
infantry forces and the armored forces, something that the men would use
once they were in Vietnam (00:48:13:00)
 At one point, Dudeck remembers sitting on the top of a hill with his
machine gun dug in and watching practice F-4 bombing runs in the area
below him (00:48:37:00)
 At one point, one of the F-4’s flew directly over the hill where
Dudeck and the rest of the men were sitting; the aircraft was so
low that the exhaust blew Dudeck’s helmet off (00:49:02:00)
When he first joined the Marines, Dudeck’s enlistment was supposed to last for four
years, from 1963 to 1967 (00:49:45:00)
During their training, Dudeck and the other men did not know anything about what was
happening in Vietnam (00:50:46:00)
o One day, all the men were called together, the company commander came out,
said that there was a situation happening in Vietnam, and the Marines needed to
be a part of it, even if it was “not much of a war” (00:50:50:00)
 Although the commander asked for volunteers to go to Vietnam, Dudeck
suspects that it would not have mattered one way or the other what the
men said, they were going regardless (00:51:33:00)
 Dudeck thought it was kind of odd that the commander asked if the men
would “like to go to a war” (00:51:44:00)

�o Following the company commander’s pep talk, Dudeck cannot remember the
exact time frame until he officially deployed, although he suspects it was about a
month or two (00:51:57:00)
 At one point, the men were officially assigned their weapons, which
turned out to be the same weapons that they had been training with in
California (00:52:17:00)
 The weapons had already been used by countless other Marines, so
they were not in the very best of shape; however, the men made do
with what they had (00:52:33:00)
Deployment (00:52:47:00)
 One day, the men found themselves on a dock in San Diego, boarding a ship with their
entire battalion (00:52:47:00)
o When the battalion first boarded the ship, it was 1st Battalion, 5th Marines;
however, somewhere along the way, the designation changed and the battalion
became 2nd Battalion, 9th Marines (00:53:11:00)
o Before leaving San Diego, Dudeck does not recall the men ever receiving any sort
of orientation for Vietnam; the “real world” opened up for the men once the ship
reached Okinawa (00:54:15:00)
o After leaving San Diego, the ship encountered a storm on the very first day out;
Dudeck does not remember exactly how big the seas were but the boat was
pitching back and forth (00:54:36:00)
o The storm lasted almost the entire voyage to Hawaii and almost all the men were
sick; Dudeck was one of maybe one hundred other men who did not get sick but
he still did not feel very good (00:54:49:00)
 The Navy personnel onboard the ship picked on the Marines for being
seasick (00:55:06:00)
o On the other hand, once the ship left Hawaii and sailed to Okinawa, the seas were
calm and it was pleasant (00:55:40:00)
 The ship stopped in Hawaii overnight and each of the men were given
twenty-four hours of liberty leave (00:55:50:00)
 Once the ship arrived at Okinawa, Dudeck and the other men were in an environment
that was fairly close to the terrain they would later encounter in Vietnam (00:56:33:00)
o It was on Okinawa where the men learned how to rappel and how to handle
themselves in the water (00:56:43:00)
 The men were taken out a couple of miles into the ocean, dumped in the
water and told they had to swim back to the shore (00:56:53:00)
 Although some of the men used lifejackets, Dudeck does not ever
recall being assigned one (00:57:23:00)
 The waters surround Okinawa were treacherous in terms of the
fauna that lived in them; in particular, sea snakes (00:57:33:00)
o Dudeck remembers looking down into the water and seeing
seven to eight foot-long snakes swimming four feet below
him; the snakes were really good incentive for the men to
keep moving (00:57:48:00)

�



The men did the rappelling off cliffs, as well as free-climbing in order to
simulate attacks on enemy positions (00:58:26:00)
 In order to get back down from the top of the cliffs, the men would
rappel (00:58:52:00)
 The men were expected to keep quiet during the training and one
man took that to the extreme (00:59:02:00)
o Whenever the men would rappel down, they would wear
heavy-duty gloves (00:59:12:00)
o However, in the case of the one soldier, he put on his
gloves, slung his rifle over his shoulder, grabbed at the rope
and began to rappel; the only problem was that he missed
grabbing the rope (00:59:27:00)
o The man fell all the way to the bottom of the cliff without
saying a word; the only thing the other men heard was the
clatter of his rifle as it hit the ground (00:59:33:00)
o Although everyone else thought the man was dead, he was
not even injured, apart from a handful of scrapes and
bumps (00:59:45:00)
 Other times, the men had to simulate carrying wounded men;
however, doing a quick rappel with someone on their backs was
not something the men really want to do (01:00:28:00)
o Being one of the bigger guys in the company, Dudeck was
forced to carry the heavier men (01:00:42:00)
o Dudeck and the other Marines spent about a month to a month-and-a-half training
on Okinawa (01:01:22:00)
o There were pretty intense jungles on the island and the men spent a large portion
of time training in them (01:01:32:00)
 The training largely focused on maneuvering in the jungle and a lot of
DOs and DON’Ts, such as effectively using camouflage (01:01:43:00)
 There was not really any training for the more sophisticated
aspects of jungle warfare that the men would later use in Vietnam;
most of that information was learned through trial-and-error once
the men were in Vietnam (01:02:08:00)
 The training was meant as a heads-up to what the men might experience in
Vietnam, such as booby-traps and how to use different materials to make
their own traps (01:02:22:00)
 Although the training was a really eye-opener, it was nothing compared to
actually being in the bush (01:02:41:00)
o Dudeck does not believe anyone who was training the men had been to Vietnam;
although some senior NCOs had served on Okinawa during World War II, their
level of understanding about what the men would be facing in Vietnam was only
slightly more than the understanding the men had (01:02:52:00)
To actually get from Okinawa to Vietnam, the men were loaded onto another ship;
however, unlike the voyage(s) to Okinawa, the men did PT (physical training) every day,
had classes about the training on Okinawa, etc. (01:03:41:00)

�

Once the men landed in Vietnam near Da Nang and began marching overland to the Da
Nang Airport, Dudeck picked up some sort of bug and had a high fever (01:05:02:00)
o Dudeck went through the landing and was scared to death; it was a real eye
opener when the men were issued live ammunition and Dudeck was strapping
ammunition to his chest and carrying the M-60 ashore (01:05:11:00)
 The men did not know what to expect when they landed, so they had their
weapons locked and loaded; naturally, it came as a shock when they
landed on the beach and little old Vietnamese ladies were there selling
beers and sodas (01:05:31:00)
o By the time the men had marched to the airport, Dudeck had a raging headache,
so he was sent to the medical battalion, which was about a mile up the road, and
told to come back later (01:05:43:00)
 Dudeck had a temperature of 104° and a couple of other issues; Dudeck
does not remember how long he was at the medical battalion but he
eventually ended up back with his unit, good as gold (01:06:03:00)
o Initially, Dudeck’s unit was assigned to performing guard duty around the
perimeter of the airport; although the men had been led to believe that they might
encounter hoards of hostile Vietnamese at any moment, it did not quite turn out
that way (01:06:27:00)
 Every so often at night, the men would hear a shot or two go off but most
of the times, it was another grunt who had gotten spooked (01:06:46:00)
 During the entire time his unit was doing guard duty, Dudeck never once
needed to fire his weapon and he does not know anyone who did fire their
weapon (01:06:56:00)
o Being in the heavy weapons platoon, Dudeck was normally assigned to one of the
other platoons in the company; the entire platoon would be split up to the different
platoons and it was not uncommon for Dudeck and the other men in the platoon to
spend different days with different platoons (01:07:14:00)
 Dudeck never really had an opportunity to see any of the other units
stationed at the airport, although he knew there were a couple of South
Vietnamese units stationed there (01:07:32:00)
o At that time, Dudeck did not pay much attention to the Vietnamese civilians,
although he is sure they were around; he remembers seeing small hooches where
the civilians lived (01:07:57:00)
 Dudeck suspects that because his unit was new in-country, the
commanders did not allow the Vietnamese civilians to get too close, for
fear that the civilians would spook the men, causing them to do something
they might regret (01:08:14:00)
 Once the unit was established in-country, then the Vietnamese civilians,
especially the children, began to come around; the adults tended to stay
away, wanting nothing to do with the men (01:08:33:00)
 Some of the children were a lot smarter than the men gave them
credit for because on in some cases, the children would mark the
Marines’ locations on home-made maps (01:08:53:00)
o Although Dudeck is sure that his company eventually began going out on patrols
while still at the airport, he does not remember them (01:09:34:00)

�



According to Dudeck, would make sense that they would do security
sweeps around the perimeter instead of just sitting in a hole and waiting
for something to happen (01:09:47:00)
 Dudeck does not think that his unit suffered any casualties while stationed
at the airport; it was not until they left the airport that things started to
change (01:09:55:00)
After Dudeck’s company had been in-country for quite some time, they received
notification that the unit was being split up; however, the men did not know if that meant
the entire company or platoons or squads (01:10:28:00)
o Nevertheless, one days, the men were headed onto trucks and told they would be
joining new units, although some would be staying with the original battalion, 2nd
Battalion, 9th Marines (01:11:09:00)
o Dudeck himself ended up be transferred to 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines; like most of
the other men, Dudeck believed the transfer was so that Dudeck was a
replacement for another wounded Marine (01:11:18:00)
 During the transfer, Dudeck’s original gun team from the company was
broken up (01:12:22:00)
 As well, when Dudeck thought about the transfer some years later, part of
the reason may have been that the original company commander had not
been in good standing as was relieved of command (01:12:28:00)
 When Dudeck joined his new unit, there were some other men from his
previous company joining as well (01:13:52:00)
o Dudeck knew that his new unit was short-handed personnel wise because a
standard M-60 gun team was supposed to be four men but when he joined his new
team, he made it a three-man team (01:14:08:00)
 The gun team already had a gunner when Dudeck arrived, so he became
the team leader (01:14:25:00)
 Dudeck vaguely knew the gunner in the new team; they had either crossed
paths or briefly worked together prior to then (01:14:54:00)
o When Dudeck transferred to the new company, he had to re-qualify with the rifle
in order to establish himself within the new company (01:15:28:00)
 Dudeck did not think it would be much of a problem because he had
already qualified expert on a couple of occasions (01:15:39:00)
 Before the actual qualification, Dudeck and the other Marines who had
transferred were given one session at the rifle range to zero-in their rifles
and make sure the rifles were firing accurately (01:15:58:00)
 During the qualification, Dudeck had almost a perfect score through the
200yd, 300yd, standing, sitting, and kneeling; however, when he got to the
500yd, something went screwy (01:16:12:00)
 As best Dudeck can figure, the targets were not numbered and he
was shooting at the wrong target; Dudeck ended up never hitting
his 500yd target once (01:10:08:00)
 Luckily, Dudeck had enough points from the previous positions that he
was still able to qualify; Dudeck does not know what would have
happened had he not qualified (01:16:52:00)

�Miscellaneous recollections (01:17:46:00)
 Dudeck and the other Marines did not really understand the purpose behind their
operations; the men’s philosophy was had they taken the entire 3rd Marine Division and
placed them on a line, the division would have been in Hanoi in two weeks (01:17:46:00)
o Some of the things that the men were assigned to do seemed crazy, such as having
to go out in small groups (01:18:11:00)
o When the Marines first arrived, they were supposed to be winning the hearts and
minds of the Vietnamese; later on, the missions switched from winning the hearts
and minds to search and destroy (01:18:19:00)
o It was one thing to go in and try to be friendly with the local population,
especially when the local population often did not want to have anything to do
with the Marines (01:18:48:00)
 About the only thing that the Marines did that Dudeck saw that was of any
particular value at the time was that the Marine forces were able to bring
in Navy corpsmen to look after the children and treat any wounds or
injuries (01:18:58:00)
 However, Dudeck suspects that half of the time, the corpsmen
were treating wounded Viet Cong soldiers (01:19:10:00)
o The Marine philosophy was to go in, take ground, and move on, with some other
unit coming in behind the Marines to hold the ground (01:19:31:00)
o Once the hearts and minds efforts began to fail, that was when the Marines began
to go out in small groups in efforts to actively engage the enemy forces before
calling in larger units (01:19:44:00)
 However, the enemy units often never stood their ground long enough for
a larger force to be called in, so the Marine units would be shot at for a
little bit before going somewhere else (01:20:08:00)
o Most of the operations did not make sense to Dudeck and the other Marines
because it was not the types of operations that they had been trained to do,
especially in California (01:20:23:00)
o When the small teams would be moving around in the field, they would not want
to be bogged down in extended firefights (01:20:43:00)
 Normally, the teams would establish contact or, if they were lucky, spot
the enemy before contact was established and would then step back to call
in a mortar strike or air support (01:20:53:00)
 As time went on, the men became a lot smart in doing the operations; their
camouflage techniques became better, they ways they moved in the jungle
became better, etc. (01:21:21:00)
 Although there were individuals who had morale problems within the unit, as a whole,
there were not morale problems for the unit (01:22:07:00)
o Almost all of the men were very professional; everyone within the unit knew that
they had a job to do (01:22:16:00)

�








Even though Dudeck’s company(s) did take a lot of casualties during his tour, the
casualties were spread out, often with one or two men being wounded or killed at any
given time (01:22:24:00)
o Just before he was wounded himself, Dudeck got the feeling it was inevitable that
he would be hit; during his entire tour, Dudeck went through three different gun
teams and it was only a matter of time until it was Dudeck’s turn (01:22:48:00)
o As the casualties numbers went up, the gun teams just got smaller and smaller; at
one point, Dudeck was a squad leader, which consisted of two gun teams, and the
whole squad consisted of six soldiers, including Dudeck (01:23:14:00)
 One good thing about Marine training was that it did not make any
difference if someone was the ammo carrier or the gunner, or the squad
leader; everyone could switch out and take over the job of someone else
and it happened a lot (01:23:46:00)
 A squad leader might be wounded or killed and all of a sudden, a
PFC (Private, First Class) was the new squad leader (01:24:10:00)
o Dudeck and the other Marines tried their best to make sure any replacements
knew what was going on; however, there was some much that they needed to
teach the replacements before taking them into the field that the information
became a little overwhelming (01:24:46:00)
 At one point, Dudeck sent one of his replacements out to get a canteen of
water and the replacement end up being killed by a sabotaged 105mm
artillery round (01:25:15:00)
 The round had been placed on a trail that the replacement was
walking on, which was something the more veteran soldiers
avoided doing (01:26:18:00)
Usually, when the men had to move through the partially flooded rice paddies, the
ground was made up of a thick muck, although how thick the muck was usually depended
on the time of year and how long the paddies had been flooded (01:27:11:00)
o Sometimes, the men moved through paddies that were completely dry while other
times, the paddies had just been flooded (01:27:27:00)
Racial tensions within the unit were not much of an issue; through his own stupidity,
Dudeck got himself into a problem one time (01:28:10:00)
o Although it was a racial problem, at the time, Dudeck did not realize that it was a
racial problem because he did not have any experience with African-Americans
prior to joining the Marines (01:28:19:00)
 By the time the Marines deployed to Vietnam, Dudeck was one of the
elder statesman of the unit, at twenty-one years old (01:28:38:00)
Along with there not being any racial tension, Dudeck never once heard of anyone ever
using drugs in Vietnam (01:28:57:00)
Part of the lack of racial tension or drug use came from the high moral amongst the men;
they firmly believed that they were going to kick ass and take names (01:29:17:00)
o However, over time, the men realized that they were not expected to win, partially
because the commanders were not allowing them to win; the men were not
allowed to do the things they needed to do in order to win (01:29:38:00)
 Dudeck remembers officers coming into the field and telling the men they
were not to fire their weapons until they were fired upon (01:29:55:00)

�



However, if the men were walking in jungle where they could only
see five or six feet in front of themselves and they waited for the
enemy to take the first shot, they were dead meat (01:30:04:00)
 Whenever Dudeck carried the M-60, it was locked and loaded,
with the safety off (01:30:22:00)
o The rule of the bush was always “the first guy to shoot was
the one who lives” (01:30:26:00)
 During the times the men were at a camp and would be going into
the field for a patrol, there would be an NCO waiting to check each
of the men’s rifle chambers to make sure there was not a round in
the chamber (01:30:40:00)
o That lasted until the men were about 10yds beyond the
perimeter, when they all chambered a round; all the men
knew that leaving the wire without a round in the chamber
was just asking for trouble (01:30:57:00)
During the six plus months he was in Vietnam, Dudeck only saw a city, Da Nang, once
and the only reason he went there for a day was to act as a guard a truck; Dudeck had
time to have one beer at the bar before having to head back (01:32:30:00)
o Other than that one trip into Da Nang, Dudeck was in the field for the length of
his time in-country (01:33:07:00)
o Although they would try to fly food out to men in the field, such as a full
Thanksgiving meal, it did not always turn out well; for example, six hours after
the Thanksgiving meal, all the soldiers were sick (01:33:12:00)
 Another time, the Marines tried flying fresh-baked bread out to the men on
board helicopters along with big vats of peanut butter and jelly
(01:33:49:00)
 However, when the men broke the bread open, the inside was
green from mold, although the men ate it anyway (01:34:07:00)
 Other than those handful of times, the men mostly ate C-Rations, apart
from the rare occasions when they made it into a base camp, when they
were able to have a hot meal, which was not always good but was at least
better than C-Rations (01:34:26:00)
 From time to time, the men did receive a “beer ration” while in the field;
although they were technically supposed to receive two beers or two sodas
a day, they received that once every couple of weeks (01:34:47:00)
 They would only fly the ration out if the unit was going to be in an
area for several days (01:35:09:00)

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Louis Dudeck was born in 1943 in Bloomer, Wisconsin, and enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1963. He trained at San Diego and Camp Pendleton, and served with the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment at Pendleton until he unit was deployed to Vietnam in 1965 and redesignated as the 2nd Battalion, 9th Marines. His unit did jungle training on Okinawa, and then landed at Da Nang, the first ground combat unit in Vietnam. His battalion initially guarded the Da Nang airport, then went to Chu Lai, and Dudeck was then transferred to the 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines, with whom he participated in Operation Harvest Moon in December, where his company took heavy losses. A few weeks later, while operating in the A Shau Valley, Dudeck was badly wounded and sent first to Japan and then to the US to recuperate, and was discharged for medical reasons in 1966. [Note: the first interview includes most of his combat history, and the second fills in some gaps in the early part of the story and clarifies several aspects of his Vietnam service.]</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Louis Dudeck 2
Vietnam War
Interview Length: (01:35:38:00)
[Note: This interview was conducted to supplement the original one done several years earlier,
and to fill in gaps in the original interview and clarify some of the details of his service in
Vietnam.]
Pre-enlistment / Boot Camp (00:00:52:00)
 Dudeck was born in 1943 in the small town of Bloomer, Wisconsin; the town is in the
northwest part of Wisconsin, about one hundred miles to the south and east of
Minneapolis-St. Paul (00:00:52:00)
 While going through high school, girls and athletics were the primary things keeping
Dudeck in high school; Dudeck ended up graduating with either a C- or a D+ grade
average (00:01:28:00)
 Dudeck graduated from high school in 1962 and during his senior year, he had a job
operating a small pool hall (00:01:42:00)
o Dudeck knew the man who had owned the pool hall before him and the other man
wanted to get out of the business; Dudeck saw an opportunity to make a little
extra money, so he took over (00:02:04:00)
o His father set him up with a couple of pool tables plus a hot dog cooker, a pop
machine (00:02:18:00)
 While Dudeck was growing up, his father was in the candy business, working for the
Curtiss Candy Company; Dudeck’s father would go to various areas and sell candy to
local stores and restaurants (00:02:34:00)
o It was Dudeck’s step-father who worked for the candy company; Dudeck’s
biological father passed away in 1950 (00:02:56:00)
 His biological father owned a small jewelry shop and when he died, Dudeck’s mother
took over the business and sold it just before she re-married (00:03:03:00)
 Dudeck’s brother was in the Marine Corps and Dudeck remembers his brother coming
home and telling stories about the Cuban Missile Crisis (00:03:24:00)
o Dudeck’s brother was stationed at Guantanamo Bay at the time and told stories of
how the Cubans would come up to the perimeter of the base and harass the
Marines inside (00:03:36:00)
o According to Dudeck’s brother, the Marines scared the Cubans away by firing
sling-shots at them (00:03:43:00)
 Dudeck’s brother was Dudeck’s hero and Dudeck figured that if his brother could make it
in the Marines, then so could he (00:03:51:00)
o Dudeck was a sickly child growing up, suffering from several bouts of rheumatic
fever and active tuberculosis; therefore, when Dudeck went to his parents to say
he wanted to join the Marines, their first response was that the Marines were not
going to want to take him (00:04:01:00)

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However, his parents’ doubt just made Dudeck more intent on joining the
Marines (00:04:20:00)
o One day, after a night of drinking, Dudeck ended up in the recruiting office in Eau
Claire, Wisconsin and lo-and-behold, the Marines did take him (00:04:30:00)
Dudeck ended up enlisting around August/September of 1963, when he was nineteen
years old and a little over a year after he graduated (00:04:53:00)
In order to get to boot camp, Dudeck took a flight out of Eau Claire; on the way to
California, the airplane Dudeck was on had a little trouble over Arizona, with one of the
engines catching fire (00:05:16:00)
Dudeck was sent to San Diego, California for boot camp and from what he can
remember, there was someone waiting for him when he arrived (00:05:42:00)
o Dudeck remembers there being a couple of uniformed Marines collecting recruits
from the flight, which had a fair number of recruits onboard (00:06:01:00)
The uniformed Marines collected the recruits and held them before taking them to the
MCRD (Marine Corps Recruit Depot); Dudeck and the other new recruits arrived at the
MCRD around one o’clock in the morning (00:06:19:00)
o In order to get to the depot, the recruits were placed on a large bus, where they
had to sit three to a seat; Dudeck, who is not a small man himself, was squeezed
between two black men (00:06:46:00)
 Being from Wisconsin, Dudeck thinks those were the first two black men
that he had ever seen (00:07:04:00)
o The uniformed Marines did not act like drill instructors; their job was to act as
“wranglers”, organizing all the recruits and making sure to get them onto the bus
to the MCRD (00:07:21:00)
o The shouting came “like a thunderclap” when the bus pulled into the MCRD;
Dudeck believes that there were more than a couple of recruits who “messed
themselves right then and there” (00:07:41:00)
o Not everything was as “correct” back then as it is today; today, the drill
instructors cannot touch the recruits, they have to act respectfully towards the
recruits, they cannot use obscenities, etc. (00:08:08:00)
 However, during Dudeck’s training, that sort of stuff was fair game for the
drill instructors; if someone was not moving fast enough, he was propelled
towards the exit, with a few expletives along the way (00:08:24:00)
o Dudeck remembers getting off the bus, “flying” towards any set of the footprints
on the ground outside, and trying to make sure that his feet were properly set at a
45° angle (00:08:49:00)
 Because of his brother, Dudeck knew what was coming, which gave him a
distinct advantage over the other recruits; Dudeck’s brother explained that
there were things you do and things you don’t do (00:09:17:00)
 For one thing, Dudeck did not want to stand out; you did not want
to be the very best at doing something but you also did not want to
be the very worst either (00:09:28:00)
o However, because Dudeck was tall, he had a tough time not
standing out; the drill instructors had a penchant for picking
on the bigger recruits but that was fine with Dudeck
because they could not break him (00:09:42:00)

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

On a couple of occasions, Dudeck and the other big
men would be invited for “consultations”; the other
men would hear stuff moving around and then see
the recruits just walking out (00:10:15:00)
 Dudeck believes the “consultations” were merely a
test in order to see what type of men the individual
recruits were (00:10:57:00)
 The purpose of the training was to build the recruits into the image and
likeness of Marines; therefore, the instructors took what they had,
removed all the peripherals from civilian life, and put in what they wanted
the recruits to know (00:11:03:00)
o Dudeck went through his initial physical while still in Wisconsin and only had a
small physical done after he arrived in San Diego, before he and the other recruits
went into the receiving barracks (00:11:32:00)
 Dudeck withheld some of his medical history, specifically because he did
not want to be sent home (00:11:52:00)
 Dudeck and the other recruits also did aptitude testing, although not until
four or five days after they had arrived at the MCRD (00:12:07:00)
Dudeck had an advantage over some of the other recruits in that he had been an athlete in
high school, although he had slacked off in the year after his graduation; prior to Dudeck
enlisting, his brother told him to start running (00:12:25:00)
o Dudeck weighed 187lbs when he went into boot camp and he weighed 187lbs
when he finished boot camp (00:12:41:00)
o Dudeck never really had any problem meeting the physical requirements for the
training, such as running, calisthenics, hand-to-hand combat, etc.; on the other
hand, a lot of the other recruits had trouble and several were dropped back a
couple of weeks so they could work on their fitness (00:12:56:00)
 The worst thing for any of the recruits was being set back a couple of
weeks because that meant the recruit had to do all of the training over
again (00:13:24:00)
 All the overweight recruits were separated out and sent to the “fat boys
platoon” (00:13:57:00)
o Dudeck made it a point that he would never fall out during training; he might be
dying but in the process of dying, he would trying to do one more push-up
(00:14:14:00)
 Some of the recruits did fall out and they suffered at the hands of the drill
instructors, who were grueling (00:14:28:00)
Dudeck remembers all of his drill instructors, including the staff sergeant who was the
training company commander and a corporal who was only 5’3” and 120lbs but was the
meanest of all the drill instructors (00:14:44:00)
o Dudeck never had any hard feelings against the drill instructors because he knew
what they were doing; he did not object, just went with the program, and tried to
stay in the middle (00:15:30:00)
Around 10% of Dudeck’s training company ended up washing out of the training
entirely; these were often people with either little education or were from the larger cities
and who saw themselves as tough (00:15:57:00)

�



o Either way, those men had trouble adapting to life in the Marines and the drill
instructors would run them right out of the training (00:16:21:00)
o Dudeck does not know how the drill instructors determined whether someone
would be able to turn around or whether they were simply not going to be able to
make the grade (00:16:29:00)
 There some tough, hotshot kids who turned into tough, hotshot Marines
but there were others who were exactly the same who ended up washing
out (00:16:41:00)
During the training, one of Dudeck’s good friends turned out to be an American Indian
who was also from Wisconsin (00:17:18:00)
o Dudeck’s training company had several American Indians; 20% of the training
company was African-American, 10% was Hispanic-American, a handful of
Asian-Americans, and the remainder were poor, white kids (00:17:28:00)
o One of the drill instructors was African-American and he dealt heavily with the
African-American recruits; whenever one of the African-American recruits did
not cut it, Dudeck believes that drill instructor took it personally (00:18:05:00)
 One of the African-American recruits arrived at boot camp wearing a
derby-style hat; when it became time for the recruits to ship all their
civilian clothes home, for whatever reason, that recruit thought he would
be able to keep the derby hat (00:18:44:00)
 The first time there was an inspection, the drill instructors found
the hat; the African-American drill instructor took the recruit aside,
roughed him up, and the recruit was eventually pulled out of
Dudeck’s training company (00:19:19:00)
 The morning after the recruit was pulled out, there was a pile of
candy bars outside the duty hut that the other recruits had been
hiding (00:19:47:00)
On a daily basis, the recruits would wake up at 5 a.m. to do PT (physical training) for
roughly an hour, after which the recruits ran to breakfast; after breakfast, the recruits did
more PT before going to some sort of class (00:20:22:00)
o This was the schedule for the first couple of weeks, during which the recruits
were asked about their history and had to do tests; it was all done so the recruits
could get acclimated (00:20:51:00)
 The recruits had longer to do these things back then because the boot
camp was longer (00:21:15:00)
o After the first couple of weeks, the recruits got into the “meat and potatoes” part
of the training, such as: hand-to-hand combat, running the obstacles courses,
classes on Marine Corps history, basic weapons instruction, etc. (00:21:45:00)
 The recruits also did more testing in order to determine where they would
go once they had finished training (00:22:25:00)
 A lot of the training becomes a blur because everything was repetitive;
nothing was ever done only once (00:23:02:00)
 The recruits spent two weeks on the rifle range doing their first
qualifications using the M-14 rifle (00:23:19:00)
o By the time the recruits got into the heavy-duty training, Dudeck had established
himself and was not used for demonstrations (00:24:24:00)

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Some of the other men who were having a little bit more trouble were used
for the demonstrations (00:24:40:00)
As the recruits approached graduation from boot camp, everything changed; there were
little things that might seem insignificant to an outside but were major things for the
recruits (00:25:10:00)
o For example, when the recruits first arrived for boot camp and were issued
uniforms, the uniforms hung on the men like rags and did not even look like a
uniform; however men who had become Marines actually looked like Marines,
with properly bloused trousers and shine boots (00:25:23:00)
 About two weeks before graduation, the recruits were issued blousing
garters, which was a big deal for the recruits; it meant the drill instructors
were starting to think of them a bit differently (00:25:47:00)
 In “blousing their trousers”, the recruits rolled their trouser legs up so the
trouser legs did not lay right down on the in-step of the boot (00:26:30:00)
o As well, the drill instructors started talking with the recruits was opposed to
screaming at them (00:26:58:00)
o By that point, the recruits were expected to know a little bit about what they were
supposed to be doing (00:27:05:00)
 For example, the close-order drill became a source of pride amongst the
recruits in order to see which platoon would be the best (00:27:20:00)
o The recruits did have a graduation ceremony when they finished boot camp,
which was quite spectacular (00:28:19:00)
 All of the MCRD was in attendance, as well as the recruits’ parents and
high-ranking officers (00:28:24:00)
 The feeling that Dudeck had during the ceremony was something he never
felt before in his life or has felt since, save for maybe the birth of his firstborn child (00:28:59:00)
At the end boot camp, Dudeck knew that he was going to be a standard Marines grunt,
as were all the other recruits in his training company; Dudeck cannot remember anyone
not become a grunt at that time (00:29:14:00)

Infantry Training Regiment / Camp Pendleton (00:29:27:00)
 After finishing boot camp, Dudeck was sent to join an Individual Training Regiment
(ITR) at Camp Pendleton, California (00:29:27:00)
o Once he joined the ITR, Dudeck was assigned to a weapons platoon; specifically,
he was assigned to work with an M-60 machine gun (00:29:33:00)
o The ITR lasted four weeks and was extremely different than boot camp; the men
were given a little bit of individual freedom and did not have to constantly look
around to see who was watching them (00:29:42:00)
o The ITR training was much more detailed in terms of focusing on basic tactics,
how to properly use the weapons, etc. (00:30:07:00)
 At that point, the trainers were trying to sort out which Marines could do
what (00:30:20:00)
 When Dudeck first joined the ITR, he was assigned the job of
being an ammo carrier for an M-60 machine gun; apart from his

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own rifle and ammunition, Dudeck carried several cans worth of
ammunition for the machine gun (00:30:39:00)
 As the men moved up and down the mountains in the base, the
trainers were able to establish a pecking order of who could handle
carrying the heavy M-60 and who could not (00:30:51:00)
o Dudeck quickly found himself carrying around the M-60 as
opposed to the ammunition (00:31:26:00)
 While in ITR, the Marines were able to “play with all the toys”, training
with everything from flamethrowers and 3.5in rockets to the M-60 and the
.50 caliber M2 (Ma Deuce) machine gun (00:31:48:00)
 The men were even able to fire the old-fashioned water-cooled and
air-cooled .30 caliber machine guns (00:32:10:00)
 The men also trained with 81mm and 60mm mortars as well as
older M1 Garand rifles (00:32:23:00)
 At that point, it was still not exactly clear who would be doing
what, so the men just trained with everything (00:32:42:00)
The four weeks of ITR went really fast; there was so much that the Marines had to learn
before they were assigned to the FMF (Fleet Marine Force) (00:32:55:00)
Dudeck remembers receiving his first leave home after finishing ITR and he remembers
watching the funeral of President Kennedy on the television at his home (00:33:34:00)
Dudeck had a thirty-day leave and he remembers begin ordered back to join a company,
Charlie 1/5 [C Company, 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment], at Camp Pendleton
(00:34:03:00)
o When he arrived at the unit, the commanders started hollering that all the men
were to fall out with their uniforms and weapons; the men thought that they might
be going to war with Russia if something happened as a result of President
Kennedy’s assassination (00:34:31:00)
o Although there were some squad and platoon leaders already in the unit, for the
most part, all the men in the company were coming back from their leaves
following the end of ITR en masse (00:35:19:00)
o Overall, it was a spooky time because the men did not know if the Russians were
going to try something (00:35:36:00)
o The heightened state-of-alert lasted for a couple of days to a week before the men
started doing things that they would normally do at the company-level, which was
mostly training in anticipation of deployment somewhere (00:35:57:00)
In Dudeck’s opinion, he and the other Marines were completely unprepared for a
deployment to Vietnam (00:36:34:00)
o The Marines were meant to be a shock force intended to take ground while
fighting on a fairly conventional battlefield; the Marines would take hills or
territory and leave the area to someone else before moving on (00:36:43:00)
o However, up until that point, the men had not received any sort of jungle training;
although they did receive some before deploying to Vietnam, the men could have
received more (00:37:10:00)
o Most of the training the men had received was conventional, such as fire-andmaneuver (00:37:39:00)

�

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Nevertheless, a lot of the training was cool and fun to do; although
Dudeck made light of the training, it was still serious business
(00:37:53:00)
 The men did do amphibious training, which was one of the most fun
things they did (00:38:28:00)
 The men did the training right on the beaches of San Diego, mixed
right in with the sunbathers and beach-goers
 (00:38:42:00)
 Prior to the “landing”, the men would be taken out in large landing
crafts and they would practice climbing over the sides of the crafts
and into small rubber boats (00:39:08:00)
o Over times, the landing crafts would be driving straight
onto the beach (00:39:17:00)
o The water was very, very cold and because the surf was
high, a lot of the times, some of the men would end up in
the water (00:39:21:00)
 The amphibious training ended up being nothing the men ever used
in Vietnam apart from when they arrived and went ashore for the
first time (00:39:36:00)
 The men also trained with amphibious vehicles, AMTRACs,
although nobody really liked them, partially because the vehicles
had a history of sinking out from under the men and because they
were not very good in the heavy surf (00:39:51:00)
o They could pack fifteen to twenty men in each of the
vehicles and it was usually better than walking; however,
even when the vehicles were used in Vietnam, Dudeck
preferred walking over having to ride in one (00:40:37:00)
It seemed like most all of the men in Dudeck’s company had a girlfriend in California
and whenever the men had time off, they would go visit their girlfriend and go to
different places (00:41:23:00)
o The men also made frequent trips into nearby Mexico, with Tijuana being one of
the stopping off points (00:41:53:00)
 One time, all of Dudeck’s squad had gone to Mexico and when they
returned, they tried to check out their machine guns and go back, “because
they had a little job to take care of” (00:41:57:00)
 Having taking Spanish in high school, Dudeck tried to use it once when a
couple of the men were locked up in jail; finally, a Mexican cop told
Dudeck to shut his mouth and leave (00:42:24:00)
The men did a lot of training in the mountains, such as cold weather training; the men
would do operations all day and into the night and by the time they woke up the next
morning, the water in their canteens had frozen (00:43:13:00)
o The men also did a lot of training in the Cleveland National Forest, which largely
consisted of scrub brush (00:43:50:00)
 At one point, the men were dropped off at a location with a couple of
baked potatoes, a bag of rice, a couple of a canteens of water and a large
supply of halizone tablets and told to survive for ten days (00:44:06:00)

�




The men had to find their own sources of food apart from the
baked potatoes and rice (00:44:26:00)
 During the exercise, the men operated in small, squad-sized groups
and each group had someone along with them that knew how to
survive in the area (00:44:35:00)
 At the end of the 10-day operation, the men were supposed to have a mock
battle against a company of Recon Marines (00:45:15:00)
 After Dudeck’s company had gathered back together, they had to
scout the hill that the Recon Marines had occupied (00:45:36:00)
 As they scouted the hill, Dudeck remembers looking out from
behind a rock and seeing the Recon Marine commander, a large
Native American, standing on a rock with his arms crossed and
occasionally scanning with his binoculars (00:46:04:00)
 Dudeck and the other men retreated back down the hill and snuck
around to the other side, where a re-supply truck was coming up a
road to the top of the hill (00:46:58:00)
o The men ambushed and took control of the truck and had
Dudeck’s squad climb in the back (00:47:12:00)
 The men drove the truck right up to the Recon Marine’s CP,
captured the company’s First Sergeant, then commander, placed
both men inside the truck, and drove away (00:47:22:00)
o The men also trained with armor forces, riding on tanks at the Marine Corps in
Twenty-nine Palms, California (00:47:59:00)
 The training was serious because it involved coordinating between the
infantry forces and the armored forces, something that the men would use
once they were in Vietnam (00:48:13:00)
 At one point, Dudeck remembers sitting on the top of a hill with his
machine gun dug in and watching practice F-4 bombing runs in the area
below him (00:48:37:00)
 At one point, one of the F-4’s flew directly over the hill where
Dudeck and the rest of the men were sitting; the aircraft was so
low that the exhaust blew Dudeck’s helmet off (00:49:02:00)
When he first joined the Marines, Dudeck’s enlistment was supposed to last for four
years, from 1963 to 1967 (00:49:45:00)
During their training, Dudeck and the other men did not know anything about what was
happening in Vietnam (00:50:46:00)
o One day, all the men were called together, the company commander came out,
said that there was a situation happening in Vietnam, and the Marines needed to
be a part of it, even if it was “not much of a war” (00:50:50:00)
 Although the commander asked for volunteers to go to Vietnam, Dudeck
suspects that it would not have mattered one way or the other what the
men said, they were going regardless (00:51:33:00)
 Dudeck thought it was kind of odd that the commander asked if the men
would “like to go to a war” (00:51:44:00)

�o Following the company commander’s pep talk, Dudeck cannot remember the
exact time frame until he officially deployed, although he suspects it was about a
month or two (00:51:57:00)
 At one point, the men were officially assigned their weapons, which
turned out to be the same weapons that they had been training with in
California (00:52:17:00)
 The weapons had already been used by countless other Marines, so
they were not in the very best of shape; however, the men made do
with what they had (00:52:33:00)
Deployment (00:52:47:00)
 One day, the men found themselves on a dock in San Diego, boarding a ship with their
entire battalion (00:52:47:00)
o When the battalion first boarded the ship, it was 1st Battalion, 5th Marines;
however, somewhere along the way, the designation changed and the battalion
became 2nd Battalion, 9th Marines (00:53:11:00)
o Before leaving San Diego, Dudeck does not recall the men ever receiving any sort
of orientation for Vietnam; the “real world” opened up for the men once the ship
reached Okinawa (00:54:15:00)
o After leaving San Diego, the ship encountered a storm on the very first day out;
Dudeck does not remember exactly how big the seas were but the boat was
pitching back and forth (00:54:36:00)
o The storm lasted almost the entire voyage to Hawaii and almost all the men were
sick; Dudeck was one of maybe one hundred other men who did not get sick but
he still did not feel very good (00:54:49:00)
 The Navy personnel onboard the ship picked on the Marines for being
seasick (00:55:06:00)
o On the other hand, once the ship left Hawaii and sailed to Okinawa, the seas were
calm and it was pleasant (00:55:40:00)
 The ship stopped in Hawaii overnight and each of the men were given
twenty-four hours of liberty leave (00:55:50:00)
 Once the ship arrived at Okinawa, Dudeck and the other men were in an environment
that was fairly close to the terrain they would later encounter in Vietnam (00:56:33:00)
o It was on Okinawa where the men learned how to rappel and how to handle
themselves in the water (00:56:43:00)
 The men were taken out a couple of miles into the ocean, dumped in the
water and told they had to swim back to the shore (00:56:53:00)
 Although some of the men used lifejackets, Dudeck does not ever
recall being assigned one (00:57:23:00)
 The waters surround Okinawa were treacherous in terms of the
fauna that lived in them; in particular, sea snakes (00:57:33:00)
o Dudeck remembers looking down into the water and seeing
seven to eight foot-long snakes swimming four feet below
him; the snakes were really good incentive for the men to
keep moving (00:57:48:00)

�



The men did the rappelling off cliffs, as well as free-climbing in order to
simulate attacks on enemy positions (00:58:26:00)
 In order to get back down from the top of the cliffs, the men would
rappel (00:58:52:00)
 The men were expected to keep quiet during the training and one
man took that to the extreme (00:59:02:00)
o Whenever the men would rappel down, they would wear
heavy-duty gloves (00:59:12:00)
o However, in the case of the one soldier, he put on his
gloves, slung his rifle over his shoulder, grabbed at the rope
and began to rappel; the only problem was that he missed
grabbing the rope (00:59:27:00)
o The man fell all the way to the bottom of the cliff without
saying a word; the only thing the other men heard was the
clatter of his rifle as it hit the ground (00:59:33:00)
o Although everyone else thought the man was dead, he was
not even injured, apart from a handful of scrapes and
bumps (00:59:45:00)
 Other times, the men had to simulate carrying wounded men;
however, doing a quick rappel with someone on their backs was
not something the men really want to do (01:00:28:00)
o Being one of the bigger guys in the company, Dudeck was
forced to carry the heavier men (01:00:42:00)
o Dudeck and the other Marines spent about a month to a month-and-a-half training
on Okinawa (01:01:22:00)
o There were pretty intense jungles on the island and the men spent a large portion
of time training in them (01:01:32:00)
 The training largely focused on maneuvering in the jungle and a lot of
DOs and DON’Ts, such as effectively using camouflage (01:01:43:00)
 There was not really any training for the more sophisticated
aspects of jungle warfare that the men would later use in Vietnam;
most of that information was learned through trial-and-error once
the men were in Vietnam (01:02:08:00)
 The training was meant as a heads-up to what the men might experience in
Vietnam, such as booby-traps and how to use different materials to make
their own traps (01:02:22:00)
 Although the training was a really eye-opener, it was nothing compared to
actually being in the bush (01:02:41:00)
o Dudeck does not believe anyone who was training the men had been to Vietnam;
although some senior NCOs had served on Okinawa during World War II, their
level of understanding about what the men would be facing in Vietnam was only
slightly more than the understanding the men had (01:02:52:00)
To actually get from Okinawa to Vietnam, the men were loaded onto another ship;
however, unlike the voyage(s) to Okinawa, the men did PT (physical training) every day,
had classes about the training on Okinawa, etc. (01:03:41:00)

�

Once the men landed in Vietnam near Da Nang and began marching overland to the Da
Nang Airport, Dudeck picked up some sort of bug and had a high fever (01:05:02:00)
o Dudeck went through the landing and was scared to death; it was a real eye
opener when the men were issued live ammunition and Dudeck was strapping
ammunition to his chest and carrying the M-60 ashore (01:05:11:00)
 The men did not know what to expect when they landed, so they had their
weapons locked and loaded; naturally, it came as a shock when they
landed on the beach and little old Vietnamese ladies were there selling
beers and sodas (01:05:31:00)
o By the time the men had marched to the airport, Dudeck had a raging headache,
so he was sent to the medical battalion, which was about a mile up the road, and
told to come back later (01:05:43:00)
 Dudeck had a temperature of 104° and a couple of other issues; Dudeck
does not remember how long he was at the medical battalion but he
eventually ended up back with his unit, good as gold (01:06:03:00)
o Initially, Dudeck’s unit was assigned to performing guard duty around the
perimeter of the airport; although the men had been led to believe that they might
encounter hoards of hostile Vietnamese at any moment, it did not quite turn out
that way (01:06:27:00)
 Every so often at night, the men would hear a shot or two go off but most
of the times, it was another grunt who had gotten spooked (01:06:46:00)
 During the entire time his unit was doing guard duty, Dudeck never once
needed to fire his weapon and he does not know anyone who did fire their
weapon (01:06:56:00)
o Being in the heavy weapons platoon, Dudeck was normally assigned to one of the
other platoons in the company; the entire platoon would be split up to the different
platoons and it was not uncommon for Dudeck and the other men in the platoon to
spend different days with different platoons (01:07:14:00)
 Dudeck never really had an opportunity to see any of the other units
stationed at the airport, although he knew there were a couple of South
Vietnamese units stationed there (01:07:32:00)
o At that time, Dudeck did not pay much attention to the Vietnamese civilians,
although he is sure they were around; he remembers seeing small hooches where
the civilians lived (01:07:57:00)
 Dudeck suspects that because his unit was new in-country, the
commanders did not allow the Vietnamese civilians to get too close, for
fear that the civilians would spook the men, causing them to do something
they might regret (01:08:14:00)
 Once the unit was established in-country, then the Vietnamese civilians,
especially the children, began to come around; the adults tended to stay
away, wanting nothing to do with the men (01:08:33:00)
 Some of the children were a lot smarter than the men gave them
credit for because on in some cases, the children would mark the
Marines’ locations on home-made maps (01:08:53:00)
o Although Dudeck is sure that his company eventually began going out on patrols
while still at the airport, he does not remember them (01:09:34:00)

�



According to Dudeck, would make sense that they would do security
sweeps around the perimeter instead of just sitting in a hole and waiting
for something to happen (01:09:47:00)
 Dudeck does not think that his unit suffered any casualties while stationed
at the airport; it was not until they left the airport that things started to
change (01:09:55:00)
After Dudeck’s company had been in-country for quite some time, they received
notification that the unit was being split up; however, the men did not know if that meant
the entire company or platoons or squads (01:10:28:00)
o Nevertheless, one days, the men were headed onto trucks and told they would be
joining new units, although some would be staying with the original battalion, 2nd
Battalion, 9th Marines (01:11:09:00)
o Dudeck himself ended up be transferred to 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines; like most of
the other men, Dudeck believed the transfer was so that Dudeck was a
replacement for another wounded Marine (01:11:18:00)
 During the transfer, Dudeck’s original gun team from the company was
broken up (01:12:22:00)
 As well, when Dudeck thought about the transfer some years later, part of
the reason may have been that the original company commander had not
been in good standing as was relieved of command (01:12:28:00)
 When Dudeck joined his new unit, there were some other men from his
previous company joining as well (01:13:52:00)
o Dudeck knew that his new unit was short-handed personnel wise because a
standard M-60 gun team was supposed to be four men but when he joined his new
team, he made it a three-man team (01:14:08:00)
 The gun team already had a gunner when Dudeck arrived, so he became
the team leader (01:14:25:00)
 Dudeck vaguely knew the gunner in the new team; they had either crossed
paths or briefly worked together prior to then (01:14:54:00)
o When Dudeck transferred to the new company, he had to re-qualify with the rifle
in order to establish himself within the new company (01:15:28:00)
 Dudeck did not think it would be much of a problem because he had
already qualified expert on a couple of occasions (01:15:39:00)
 Before the actual qualification, Dudeck and the other Marines who had
transferred were given one session at the rifle range to zero-in their rifles
and make sure the rifles were firing accurately (01:15:58:00)
 During the qualification, Dudeck had almost a perfect score through the
200yd, 300yd, standing, sitting, and kneeling; however, when he got to the
500yd, something went screwy (01:16:12:00)
 As best Dudeck can figure, the targets were not numbered and he
was shooting at the wrong target; Dudeck ended up never hitting
his 500yd target once (01:10:08:00)
 Luckily, Dudeck had enough points from the previous positions that he
was still able to qualify; Dudeck does not know what would have
happened had he not qualified (01:16:52:00)

�Miscellaneous recollections (01:17:46:00)
 Dudeck and the other Marines did not really understand the purpose behind their
operations; the men’s philosophy was had they taken the entire 3rd Marine Division and
placed them on a line, the division would have been in Hanoi in two weeks (01:17:46:00)
o Some of the things that the men were assigned to do seemed crazy, such as having
to go out in small groups (01:18:11:00)
o When the Marines first arrived, they were supposed to be winning the hearts and
minds of the Vietnamese; later on, the missions switched from winning the hearts
and minds to search and destroy (01:18:19:00)
o It was one thing to go in and try to be friendly with the local population,
especially when the local population often did not want to have anything to do
with the Marines (01:18:48:00)
 About the only thing that the Marines did that Dudeck saw that was of any
particular value at the time was that the Marine forces were able to bring
in Navy corpsmen to look after the children and treat any wounds or
injuries (01:18:58:00)
 However, Dudeck suspects that half of the time, the corpsmen
were treating wounded Viet Cong soldiers (01:19:10:00)
o The Marine philosophy was to go in, take ground, and move on, with some other
unit coming in behind the Marines to hold the ground (01:19:31:00)
o Once the hearts and minds efforts began to fail, that was when the Marines began
to go out in small groups in efforts to actively engage the enemy forces before
calling in larger units (01:19:44:00)
 However, the enemy units often never stood their ground long enough for
a larger force to be called in, so the Marine units would be shot at for a
little bit before going somewhere else (01:20:08:00)
o Most of the operations did not make sense to Dudeck and the other Marines
because it was not the types of operations that they had been trained to do,
especially in California (01:20:23:00)
o When the small teams would be moving around in the field, they would not want
to be bogged down in extended firefights (01:20:43:00)
 Normally, the teams would establish contact or, if they were lucky, spot
the enemy before contact was established and would then step back to call
in a mortar strike or air support (01:20:53:00)
 As time went on, the men became a lot smart in doing the operations; their
camouflage techniques became better, they ways they moved in the jungle
became better, etc. (01:21:21:00)
 Although there were individuals who had morale problems within the unit, as a whole,
there were not morale problems for the unit (01:22:07:00)
o Almost all of the men were very professional; everyone within the unit knew that
they had a job to do (01:22:16:00)

�








Even though Dudeck’s company(s) did take a lot of casualties during his tour, the
casualties were spread out, often with one or two men being wounded or killed at any
given time (01:22:24:00)
o Just before he was wounded himself, Dudeck got the feeling it was inevitable that
he would be hit; during his entire tour, Dudeck went through three different gun
teams and it was only a matter of time until it was Dudeck’s turn (01:22:48:00)
o As the casualties numbers went up, the gun teams just got smaller and smaller; at
one point, Dudeck was a squad leader, which consisted of two gun teams, and the
whole squad consisted of six soldiers, including Dudeck (01:23:14:00)
 One good thing about Marine training was that it did not make any
difference if someone was the ammo carrier or the gunner, or the squad
leader; everyone could switch out and take over the job of someone else
and it happened a lot (01:23:46:00)
 A squad leader might be wounded or killed and all of a sudden, a
PFC (Private, First Class) was the new squad leader (01:24:10:00)
o Dudeck and the other Marines tried their best to make sure any replacements
knew what was going on; however, there was some much that they needed to
teach the replacements before taking them into the field that the information
became a little overwhelming (01:24:46:00)
 At one point, Dudeck sent one of his replacements out to get a canteen of
water and the replacement end up being killed by a sabotaged 105mm
artillery round (01:25:15:00)
 The round had been placed on a trail that the replacement was
walking on, which was something the more veteran soldiers
avoided doing (01:26:18:00)
Usually, when the men had to move through the partially flooded rice paddies, the
ground was made up of a thick muck, although how thick the muck was usually depended
on the time of year and how long the paddies had been flooded (01:27:11:00)
o Sometimes, the men moved through paddies that were completely dry while other
times, the paddies had just been flooded (01:27:27:00)
Racial tensions within the unit were not much of an issue; through his own stupidity,
Dudeck got himself into a problem one time (01:28:10:00)
o Although it was a racial problem, at the time, Dudeck did not realize that it was a
racial problem because he did not have any experience with African-Americans
prior to joining the Marines (01:28:19:00)
 By the time the Marines deployed to Vietnam, Dudeck was one of the
elder statesman of the unit, at twenty-one years old (01:28:38:00)
Along with there not being any racial tension, Dudeck never once heard of anyone ever
using drugs in Vietnam (01:28:57:00)
Part of the lack of racial tension or drug use came from the high moral amongst the men;
they firmly believed that they were going to kick ass and take names (01:29:17:00)
o However, over time, the men realized that they were not expected to win, partially
because the commanders were not allowing them to win; the men were not
allowed to do the things they needed to do in order to win (01:29:38:00)
 Dudeck remembers officers coming into the field and telling the men they
were not to fire their weapons until they were fired upon (01:29:55:00)

�



However, if the men were walking in jungle where they could only
see five or six feet in front of themselves and they waited for the
enemy to take the first shot, they were dead meat (01:30:04:00)
 Whenever Dudeck carried the M-60, it was locked and loaded,
with the safety off (01:30:22:00)
o The rule of the bush was always “the first guy to shoot was
the one who lives” (01:30:26:00)
 During the times the men were at a camp and would be going into
the field for a patrol, there would be an NCO waiting to check each
of the men’s rifle chambers to make sure there was not a round in
the chamber (01:30:40:00)
o That lasted until the men were about 10yds beyond the
perimeter, when they all chambered a round; all the men
knew that leaving the wire without a round in the chamber
was just asking for trouble (01:30:57:00)
During the six plus months he was in Vietnam, Dudeck only saw a city, Da Nang, once
and the only reason he went there for a day was to act as a guard a truck; Dudeck had
time to have one beer at the bar before having to head back (01:32:30:00)
o Other than that one trip into Da Nang, Dudeck was in the field for the length of
his time in-country (01:33:07:00)
o Although they would try to fly food out to men in the field, such as a full
Thanksgiving meal, it did not always turn out well; for example, six hours after
the Thanksgiving meal, all the soldiers were sick (01:33:12:00)
 Another time, the Marines tried flying fresh-baked bread out to the men on
board helicopters along with big vats of peanut butter and jelly
(01:33:49:00)
 However, when the men broke the bread open, the inside was
green from mold, although the men ate it anyway (01:34:07:00)
 Other than those handful of times, the men mostly ate C-Rations, apart
from the rare occasions when they made it into a base camp, when they
were able to have a hot meal, which was not always good but was at least
better than C-Rations (01:34:26:00)
 From time to time, the men did receive a “beer ration” while in the field;
although they were technically supposed to receive two beers or two sodas
a day, they received that once every couple of weeks (01:34:47:00)
 They would only fly the ration out if the unit was going to be in an
area for several days (01:35:09:00)

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                    <text>THE

ARTS

BOO KS

AWar to Remember
Looking back at the
causes of conflict and
the horrors of combat
B Y JIM M ILLER
t 4:45 on the morning of Sept. 1,
1939, the city of Danzig (now
Gdansk) awoke to explosions and
the roar of gunfire. While German
Stuka dive bombers screeched
overhead, salvos from German battleships
pounded the port. Shortly afterward Berlin
radio broadcast a proclamation by Adolf
Hitler, announcing the invasion of Poland-and the onset of World War II.
The catastrophe that began ~n Danzig 50
years ago eventually engulfed five continents, leaving few people untouched and
an estimated 50 million dead (box). Cities
were leveled, nations dismembered, terrible new instruments of mass destruction
perfected, from the concentration camps to
tlie atomic bomb. The unprecedented-scope
and brutality of the war oblige us not to
forget it. And so, to mark the 50th anniversary of its onset, publishers are offering
readers a host of new works that endeavor,
with varying success, to commemorate, explain and put the conflict into some kind of
historical perspective.
Among the many new reference works,
the most striking is The Times Atlas of the
Second World War (256 pages. Harper &amp; Row.
$45, to be published in October) edited by
John Keegan, author of "The Face of Battle" and "Six Armies in Normandy." Plotting the course of the war in its far-flung
theaters, from the deserts of North Africa
to the jungles of Burma and the steppes of
Russia, the book's lucid text and spectacular full-color maps, designed by the staff of
Times Books in London, offer a sweeping
and vivid overview. At a glance, the reader
can see the impact of German CT-boats on
Allied shipping in the Atlantic between
1939 and 1941, the Japanese mastery of
combined sea and air operations in the East
Indies in 1942, the devastating effect of the
Allied breakout from Normandy in 1944.
Leafing through this atlas, the war sometimes seems like a grand, larger-than-life
chess game. This illusion vanishes after
consulting the Encyclopedia of the Second World
War by the British military journalists Ian
Hogg and Bryan Perrett (447 pages. Presidio. $40). The 3,000 entries and 500 photo-

A

64

NEWS WEEK: SEPTEMBER 4 , 1989

The Murderous Wages of 'Total War'
The horror of World War II was unique.
I As the estimated death toll in several
countries shows, civilians as well as combatants died in unprecedented numbers.
COUNTRY

DEATH TOLLS
CIVILIAN
MILITARY

Britain

264,000

61,000

China

1,325,000

6,000,000

France

206,000

173,000

3,300,000

3,600,000

Greece

16,000

155,000

Italy

262,000

93,000

Japan

1,140,000

953,000

Poland

320,000

6,028,000*

Soviet Union

13,000,000

7,000,000

United States

292,000

6,000t

Germany

"INCLUDES 3 MILLION JEWS. tlNCLUDES MERCHANT
MARINES.
SOURCES; GILBERT'S 'THE SECOND WORLD WAR'; PERRETT
AND HOGG'S 'THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR'

ROBERT CAPA-MAGS.UM

Terrible destruction: What it all led to

�Acatastrophe
of unprecedented
brutality,
the second
world war began
with the
invasion of Poland:
Stuka dive
bombers (above)
zero in on
targets, Hitler's
Army enters
Danzig in
triumph

ofan age to have lived through the events of
1914-18, let alone to have fought in them,
could, wittingly, wish to go to war again."
War, however, was precisely what some
veterans yearned for. They missed the idealism and camaraderie of wartime, the
thrill ofliving dangerously and the license
to kill. Such were Hitler's lusts. "He did
not fall into war," concludes Watt, "nor
was he pushed. He leapt into war, past the
warnings of his more cautious advisers,
past the efforts to appeal to his love of
peace, past the clear statements from the
British and French Governments."
As Watt points out, this is not a reassuring interpretation of Munich and its aftermath. Implying that no course of action
could have stayed Hitler's hand, he concludes that a world war requires only "the
will or miscalculation of a ruler or ruling
group intent on global hegemony to the
point of unreason and mental instability."
In The Second World War: A Complete History
(800 pages. Holt. $29.95, to be published in
No vember), the Oxford historian Martin

Gilbert, best known for his official biography of Winston Churchill, picks up the story where Watt stops: with the invasion of
Poland. Gilbert's flowing narrative is
spiced with anecdotal details culled from
diaries, memoirs and official documents.
He is especially skillful at interweaving
summaries of military strategy with vignettes of civilian suffering- the genocide
of the Jews is never far from view.
Still, in some respects this is a disappointing work. Phlegmatic in tone and often numbingly dull, it makes little effort to
graphs, maps and diagrams, arranged in the British prime minister for his "almost explain the calamitous events it describes.
alphetical order, run from the A-4 rocket petulant egoism" and tendency to dither, It also fails ultimately to convey the horror
(German, with a mean range of 183 miles) Chamberlain's fear of plunging Europe of the war. That Gilbert must so often reto Zyklon-B (a cyanide gas compound used into yet another bloody war he considers sort to mute statistics to summarize the
in the "showers" at Auschwitz). With its entirely creditable. Almost all of Europe's carnage offers ironic testimony to one of
dry descriptions of innumerable, often leaders, Watt reminds us, shared his fear. the war's greatest triumphs: the transforfiendishly clever weapons, the book makes Anxious to remain flexible, their action mation of millions of men into faceless cogs
for somber reading.
was "predicated on a model of how war in vast, impersonal machines of war .
Why, so soon after the hecatombs of the might come, constructed from what they
Commenting on this transformation in
Somme and Passchendaele in 1916 and believed to have happened in 1914, rein- his important new study of Wartime (330
1917, did the world plunge back into war? forced by a sense of incredulity that anyone pages. Oxford. $19.95), Paul Fussell points
out the popularity in America
That riddle is illuminated as
of the sobriquet "GI Joe." "The
never before in How War Came
proud anonymity of the [sol(736pages. Pantheon. $29.95) by
dier's] uniform," according to
Donald Cameron Watt. A proan American editorial in 1945,
fessor at the University of Lon"demanded a name as proud
don, Watt draws on a lifetime of
and as anonymous as itself and
archival research. With somegot it in 'GI Joe'. "
times withering wit, his new
With its telling recourse to
book brings brilliantly back to
the oxymoron "proud anonymlife the politics and diplomacy
ity," this passage offers the kind
of the 11 months between Nevof cultural evidence-offbeat
ille Chamberlain's notorious
and inadvertently revealingsurrender of Czechoslovakia to
that Fussell glories in. A proHitler at Munich on Sept. 30,
fessor of English at the Univer1938, and England's declarasity of Pennsylvania and the
tion of war on Sept. 3, 1939.
author of "The Great War and
Watt's research has led him
Modern Memory," a classic
BETTMANN ARCHIVE
to a major reassessment of
Chamberlain. Though he faults Pyrrhic peace: Chamberlain (left) with Hitler at Munich, 1938 study of the impact of World
N EWSWEEK : SEPTEMBER 4, 198 9

65

�T

H

E

A

R

T

S

War I on English literature, Fussell in his
new book seeks to evoke "the psychological and emotional culture of Americans
and Britons during the Second World
War." He also wants to splash cold water
on readers accustomed to other, more
"sanitized and romanticized" accounts.
"In unbombed America," he writes, the
suffering of the war "was wasted. . ..
America has not yet understood what the
Second World War was like."
This bitter generalization is not entirely
convincing. Fussell altogether ignores
such influential works as John Hersey's
"Hiroshima" (published in 1946) and Hannah Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism" (published in 1951). No matter. His
passionate convictions drive his book to a
furious, disturbingly effective climax. And
in his final pages, in what may be his finest
feat as a critic, Fussell introduces the reader to a hitherto unsung but remarkable
author named Eugene B. Sledge.
In 1981 this former Marine published a
neglected memoir, With the Old Breed at Peleliu
and Okinawa. Still in print (344 pages. Presidio. $15.95), this book richly merits a wider
audience. It is, just as Fussell says, "one of
the finest memoirs to emerge from any
war." In some of the passages singled out by
Fussell, Sledge recalls watching a comrade
in the aftermath of combat carving out the
gold teeth of a wounded Japanese soldier,
slicing open the cheeks of the living victim.
One Marine officer routinely relieved himself by urinating into the mouth of the
nearest available Japanese corpse. During
the bloody Okinawa campaign, fresh reinforcements arrived and disappeared with
mechanical regularity, so quickly killed or
wounded that they seemed "like homeless
waifs, unknown and faceless to us, like unread books on a shelf."
"We were expendable," writes Sledge.
"It was difficult to accept. We come from a
nation and a culture that values life and
the individual. To find oneself in a situation where your life seems of little value is
the ultimate in loneliness. It is a humbling
experience."
The searing honesty of these words
makes them, as Fussell recognizes, a fitting epitaph for the ordeal that began in
Danzig 50 years ago. When the killing was
done, countless survivors knew all too
much about the "ultimate in loneliness."
Japan lay in ruins. Europe, in the words of
Watt, had committed "suicide," in the
process destroying irreplaceable buildings, paintings, sculptures-the patrimony of 2,000 years of Western civilization.
As a matter of policy, Germany had
exterminated roughly 70 percent of Europe's Jews and an even higher percentage of its Gypsies. "A humbling experience" indeed-important to recollect
and, as this latest outpouring of books
suggests, essential to comprehend.
•

66

NEWSWEEK: SEPTEMBER 4 , 1989

In Lieu of

'Chatterton'
First Light. By Peter Ackroyd. 328 pages.
Grove Weidenfeld. $19.95.

I

magine "Abbott and Costello Meet the
Mummy" with a New Age piano score by
George Winston and you'll have a pretty
good idea of Peter Ackroyd's new novel.
"First Light" is clearly by the same author
as last year's "Chatterton"-it has to do
with the grip of the past on the
present-but it's different, too,
in an unsettling way. It's as if
Ackroyd had concluded that his
success with "Chatterton," a
complex and brilliant comedy
of ideas, was a fluke. A farce
might be safer this time out,
with cartoons for characters:
preposterous London lesbians
rubbing up against coarse
country farmers-that kind of
thing. As for ideas, well, New
Age romantic treacle about
star maps reflected in our blood plasma
might be easier to digest than playful questions about art, forgery and the ambiguous
border between them.

husband,"

MIRIAM BERKLE\

Off into the ozone: Ackroyd
tries to blend farce,
creepiness and mysticism
ill." "Dykes, dear," the old trouper repliei
Had Ackroyd wanted to make "Fin
Light" a frisky social comedy, he mig}
have brought it off, too-but that's not h
intention either.
Apparently what he wants is to combi
the creepiness and the farce with an ov
lay of dreamy mysticism. One of the mis
is a failed astronomer who promotes a lo
chatter like this: "Our bodies are made
of dead stars. We carry their light inside
So everything goes back. Everything is r
of the pattern. We carry our origin wi
us, and we can never rest until we }
returned." Thoughts of such gravity w
put even Shirley MacLaine to sleep.
Any story that features a promi
tomb must stand or fall on it. Ad
keeps his tomb pretty much constan
sight: it is not what it seems to be. Tr
course, is what we look for; disappoin
sets in when we learn that this 1
ground warren is considerably les,
what we'd expected. Even the di!
reader will guess its secret long befo
royd is moved to spell it out. For
tiresome characters, "First Light
some clever scenes-but Ackroyd
implausibilities as well. His stor
men ts-the hoary old tomb, the elf
&lt;loners and the pulpy metaphysics
cohere as they should. It might see
were taking on too much in this n
that's not quite right. "Chatterton
us what Ackroyd can do with a
characters and themes. Here he's
too little.
PETERS

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Iraq
Steve Dumond

Total Time – (26:50)
Background
· He was born December 24, 1986, in Grand Rapids, Michigan (00:03)
· Before the service, he was in high school
o He went to boot camp two weeks after he graduated from high school
(00:23)
Enlistment/Training – (01:00)
·
·
·
·

He joined because it was something that he always wanted to do
He wanted to see different things and meet different people
He served in the Marine Corps and achieved the rank of Corporal (01:08)
Boot camp was not very difficult
o It was more of a shock effect than anything else
o It was a big change (01:55)
· He went into basic training June 13, 2005 (02:13)
o Basic training was 13 weeks long
· After boot camp he went to School of Infantry (02:37)
o It lasted two months long
· It was not extremely difficult adapting to military life
Active Duty – First Tour – (03:55)
· He went to Iraq two times
o Once in March of 2006 and again in September 2007-April 2008 (04:12)
· When he first arrived in Iraq there was still a lot of action going on
· He served in a mobile unit (04:28)
o They would go city-to-city trying to capture or kill the insurgents
· He served with a very good platoon that worked well together
o They never lost any men in their platoon (04:58)
· His second tour in 2007-2008 was very boring (05:15)

�·
·
·
·

·
·
·
·

·
·
·

·

·
·
·

·

He is able to stay in touch with some of his comrades
The war has made him realize that life could be a lot worse (06:33)
It also made him gain a better understanding of how precious life can be
He was able to stay in touch with his family through a satellite phone (07:04)
o The phone was passed between vehicles
o At the bases there were phone banks where soldiers can use pre-paid calls
o E-mail and Facebook were also used
His platoon would have down time where they would watch DVD’s, smoke
cigarettes, play cards, etc. (08:14)
He has occasional thoughts of getting back into the service
He married his wife halfway through his enlistment (09:42)
When he came back from Iraq it was difficult to adjust to civilian life
o There were a couple of instances where problems came through alcohol
abuse
o He knows that some of the men are not the same now as when he first
knew them (10:53)
When he came home he felt like his family looked at him somewhat differently
He was serving when his first child was born
He talks to six friends on a weekly basis (12:42)
o They sometimes reminisce on the times that they had together
o They try to get together as much as they can
In Iraq they would sleep in the desert next to their vehicles with their loaded
weapons in their sleeping bags (13:58)
o It was an adjustment to have a weapon on him at all times
o He was always on a heightened state of alertness
§ It is difficult when coming home to calm it down (14:45)
o It was harder to break the habits when he came home (14:55)
He was in a Light Armored Reconnaissance Unit (15:12)
o They always had eight wheeled vehicles that were extremely mobile
His platoon started out in Al Qa’im, Iraq (15:43)
o They were there for a couple of weeks before being transferred to
Fallujah, Iraq (15:50)
When in Fallujah, they went to a town on the outskirts called Garma for two
months at an observation post (15:59)
o It was virtually in an old barn
o They would try to set up observation posts that would catch the insurgents
setting IED’s (Improvised Explosive Device)
§ It was extremely difficult to catch them
After Garma, they went to several cities until they finally reached Rawa, Iraq
(17:13)
o Rawa was a town of roughly 50,000 Iraqi’s
o His unit was in charge of locking down the city (17:29)
o They would patrol 7-8 patrols every day
§ Each patrol was two hours long

�o They were trying to prevent the insurgents from having any breathing
room
o They lost seven men in Rawa during a two month span (18:03)
Active Duty – Second Tour – (18:26)
· On his second tour, the marines and soldiers had been doing such a good job that
the insurgents had fled the cities
o His platoon was sent to the desert and told to find the insurgents (18:59)
o It was like a “wild goose chase”
· Because the time was going so slow, he started to miss home more
· There were days where he would be in the middle of the desert and they would
watch the “Lord of the Rings” trilogy straight through (20:07)
· When his platoon lost seven men, there was one of them that he was close to
(21:15)
o His friend was killed by a suicide bomber
o He was 19 years old
o A truck full of explosives hit the men
o He remembers when he was told that he had hatred towards the enemy and
then being angry (23:21)
§ He felt like they were there to help people but then he thought,
“Screw these people. Let’s get rid of them all.”
Lessons of War – (24:05)
· His war experience has helped to pave the way for everything that he has done
since then
o He is in a police academy
· The war has given him confidence (24:45)
· He does not regret being in the military (25:53)
· He learned “to not sweat the small stuff”

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam War
Patrick Lee Duncan
Length of Interview (0:59:48)
Background: (0:00:08)
 Born May 23rd, 1947 in Mayville, Michigan
 Graduated from high school in 1965, played all four major sports
 Enrolled at Ferris State University, supposed to begin classes in September of 1966
 Was drafted August 30th, but could not go to school instead because he was not already
beginning college
 He had a brother and a sister, his brother was married at the time (0:01:49)
o Brother was upset that Duncan was going because he was the youngest
Enlistment: Training: (0:02:03)
 Reported to Fort Wayne in Detroit
o Took a train, remembers it being very long because of a train wreck up ahead, to
Fort Knox, Kentucky
o Was on the train for 4 hours, with no air conditioning, remembers it being hot
o When they got to Kentucky, they were told it was full, and they were going to
have to go to Fort Lewis, Washington (0:02:32)
o Boarded a plane and flew to Washington for basic training
 The company, mostly from Michigan, was never given any leave because they were so
far from home
 Remembers being severely harassed by the drill instructors, who were airborne
o Wanted to make sure Echo company would be the best company ever
o Did end up coming in first place
o They were the “Echo Rattlers, strike hard, strike fast, kill”
 Was talked into another year of the military instead of doing anything else before he even
began basic training
o Was in for 3 years and 12 days (0:03:55)
 Went into Helicopters, trained in Aircraft Armament
 Drill Instructors would look at the serial number, his was RA5
o He was told he had a life expectancy of about 10 seconds
 After basic training he went to AIT (0:04:53)
o It was too close to Christmas to get leave, so they were sent off to AIT training
instead
o AIT stands for Advanced Individual Training
o Went to Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland
 While in Aberdeen, learned all about arming an aircraft and helicopters
 Vietnam had just started, and the new Cobra gunships were not over there yet
o The Delta model (0:05:23)
 Needed a gunner and a crew-chief, along with a pilot and co-pilot
o Learned how to wire a system on a helicopter

�





o Were taught advanced knowledge in case they were ever put into a situation
where they needed to work on advanced machinery
 Did come in handy later in the war
o 5 months at AIT
 Liked to party, and had a good time
Transferred to Fort Bragg in North Carolina (0:06:01)
o Assigned to the 18th or 13th Airborne division
o Right next door to the “Golden Knights”
o Attached to an air support group
 Worked more on advanced helicopters
o Spent the summer down in Fort Bragg
o Got special orders from Washington to be sent immediately to Fort Lewis,
Washington
 Wanted leave, had only had a short Christmas leave, so they processed
him in 2 days
 Got 7 shots in one day, then was given pills for a fever he would get from
the shots (0:07:19)
 Got a 13 day leave after being processed
Got a plane out to Washington
o Put on KP while at the processing center there, worked with the guys who were
coming back from Vietnam
o Made a few good friends, left Fort Lewis on a 17 hour flight to Japan
 Landed in Cam Ranh Bay
 While at the processing center had KP and guard duty
 At that point was a PFC, and so got stuck with a lot of chores
 Remembers being scared to death his first guard duty
Next day got orders to go to Chu Lai
o Remembers thinking it looked like a nice place, not too bad
o Assigned to the 14th Aviation Battalion, part of the 1st Aviation Brigade

Enlistment: Vietnam: (0:09:44)
 First night in Chu Lai, was involved in combat
o Mortar attack
o The next morning they were told they were lucky, they were going to Duc Pho
 His commander told him it was considered the only “Field Helicopters”
base in Vietnam
 Asked if it was like Chu Lai, and was told it was nothing like Chu Lai
o Got on a helicopter and flew to Duc Pho
 The total perimeter in Duc Pho was only a mile in circumference
o Supporting the 4th infantry brigade (0:10:37)
o Took care of all the helicopters on the flight line
 4 gunships, called the Sharks
 Gunships explained
 Missions were throughout the day, at least one mission a day (0:13:25)
o Flew rarely, only when gunships were scrambled
 Sleeping arrangements were all tents

�















o Wood floors, wood showers (0:14:22)
Built “Hooches”; explained
Duc Pho was hit quite a lot by mortars
o 3-4 times a week at night, not usually during the day
Near a small native village
o Go to the orphanage and give the kids some candy
February of that year, there were a lot of peace talks
o Couldn’t shoot on the helicopters that were spotted
o Started getting hit all the time, but mostly the villages surrounding (0:18:43)
o Supported the group that committedd the My Lai Massacre
o Had both North Vietnamese and Viet Cong forces in their area
Went to some of the small villages and killed over 500 enemies (0:22:45)
o Does not know if that was considered a massacre
o Afterwards things got a little quieter
For entertainment, occasionally a band from the Philippines would play
o Would play cards and drink
Went 30 days one time eating only beef and rice because the flight line was cut off
o Took him 25 years before he could eat rice again
One day they were scrambled and he had to fly (0:27:12)
o Went up north, still south of Da Nang
o Opened up on a dark spot on the hill and chaos broke loose
o Called in Marine air support
o Got hit, the ship jarred, fuel was pouring out
o Stopped the pilot from shooting off rockets so they wouldn’t blow up
o The helicopter was later in a museum in Kalamazoo
Talks about improvising a heat device to warm up the armaments shack (0:32:55)
o The monsoon season lasted a month or so
Talks about the North Vietnamese propaganda lady
Was in Duc Pho a total of 366 days (0:36:45)
Had his R&amp;R in Japan, was treated extremely well (0:37:22)
One in-country R&amp;R (0:38:38)
o Very peaceful there

Enlistment: Discharge (0:39:49)
 Was talk of extending his stay
 His mother knew the congressman and that prevented his stay
 Went back to Cam Ranh Bay
o Threw everything away
 Arrived at Fort Lewis, Washington
 Stayed in Tacoma until everything was ready
 Flew to Detroit and was picked up by his friends
o They told him he couldn’t wear his uniform around there
o His parents didn’t know he was flying
o Surprised his parents when he returned home
 Went back to work at General Motors

�o Decided to go back to college after a year
o Went to community college in Ann Arbor

After Discharge: (0:44:04)
 Joined the Veterans club at Eastern Michigan University
o A friend of his, a Navy SEAL, during campus threats
o Had Artillery Simulators in his trunk
o Sound like a real artillery round, and the police never figured it out
 Glad to be home, was individual rotation, so had a lot of friends still over there
 Many years before he made any contact with them
 Story about a medic (0:46:52)
o Fell out of the ambulance and was run over, wasn’t hurt
 Looking back, it was a great experience but one he doesn’t want to see again
o Thinks every man should serve in the military
o Felt really old when he came back compared to the ones going in
 Supports the military, even if not the president
o Believes the military should handle it, not the government
o Believes the military won Vietnam, the government lost it
 Got a college degree
o Became a respiratory therapist
 Expands on the flight line attack that left them without supplies (0:52:35)
 Talks about the ships that were shot down (0:55:45)
 Remarks about the role of the media in combat zones (0:59:03)

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455"&gt;Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Black and white photograph of a group of four young people driving across the sand in Saugatuck, Michigan. The automobile they are riding in appears to be a dune buggy and is identified as being from the 1940s. The handwriting on the back of the photograph, which is faint and partially illegible, reads: "Dune scooter, piloted by Ron [?], [?]." There is a stamp underneath which reads: "Saugatuck-Douglas Chamber of Commerce, Saugatuck, Michigan." In the bottom left-hand side there is a stamp which reads: "Joe Armstrong, Allegen, Michigan." </text>
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                <text>Digital file contributed by the Saugatuck Douglas History Center as part of the Stories of Summer project.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/"&gt;Copyright Undetermined&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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&#13;
Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
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